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| 5/25 |
| 2004/9/2 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33290 Activity:very high |
9/2 I figured the motd socialists would be out in force insulting the
Republicans this week during the RNC convention. You've got more
fresh speeches and material to work from right now than any other
time since 2000. I'm disappointed you can't even make something
up or take something out of context to get snarky and cute about.
\_ Go stick your head in a pig. To quote a whole lot of people on
the motd from the last convention, who watches the damn things?
They're just scripted television commercials.
\_ This would fly except y'all get so hot n bothered and spend
so much time digging up other old quotes and speeches. Sorry,
no dice on this reply.
\_ Many of my friends are depressed because they have this sinking
feeling (strictly gut-based) that Bush is going to win. One
is talking about retiring to his Tuscan villa for the next 4
years.
\_ Can we get them to promise in writing that they'll leave? I
thought it was really funny 4 years ago when a number of
celebs were recorded promising to leave the country if
Bush won, but mysteriously none did...
\_ Is there a list out there of all of the celebs that promised
to go away? I only know of one guy who actually did and he
isn't a major public celeb (some artist/writer) and already
had a place in France anyway.
\_ http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/leave.htm
\_ Sad, isn't it? That Bush can have 4 years with absolutely no
meaningful accomplishments other than looking good standing in
the rubble of the WTC, and yet he seems to have the momentum.
\_ Isn't it just as sad that Kerry had 20 years in the Senate
and his claim to fame was marrying a rich widow and being
a war hero despite a handful of medals he might or might not
have thrown away?
\_ Its certainly better than what we got now. His tax cuts
haven't worked and his war was a disaster. In the words
of Donald Trump, "I'm sorry, but you're FIRED!"
\_ His tax cuts have been working. Do you have a job? Do
you know anyone who wants a job and doesn't? The war
was the best fought war in the history of the planet.
We lost more soldiers on each beach on DDay than we
have in a year+ in Iraq. Are you trolling or simply
ignorant of basic historic facts?
\_ The best fought war in the history of the planet?
The war that found not a single WMD and has created
a virtual jihadist factory?
\_ We took over a country in record time with fewer
deaths than seen on our highways in a few weeks.
Yeah, it was a poorly fought war. You're an uber
military genius. Were you one of the scumbags
that was hoping it would turn into a vietnam style
quagmire with body bags coming home by the
hundreds every week?
\_ Hmm... so you're bragging by saying we've lost fewer
soldiers in a war aginst a militarily inferior foe
than in one of the biggest battles in the largest war
ever, against a foe our technological equal?
I guess by your logic, Bay of Pigs was a resounding
success because we only lost a few hundred people.
\_ The Nazis were our technological superiors, btw.
\_ No they weren't (except for tanks). -- ilyas
And your comparison to the Bay of Pigs is silly
because maybe you didn't notice but we won in
Iraq but the Cuban nationals lost in Cuba. They
weren't American soliders. This isn't even
apples to oranges but more like celery sticks to
Ford pickup trucks. At least get your very basic
history correct before you step up to bat.
\_ What do you mean? I'm saving $30k just from personal
tax cuts and gobs more if you count in estate tax
changes.
\_ Then you're far better off than the larger chunk of
us, and probably were not hurting from it before...
Tell us. How many new jobs have you created?
\_ Me personally? I grew my group from 12 to 17
people in the last 2 years. Before that I
started a company that went from 3 (the founders)
to 23 at its peak. Hurting? Why did it have
to hurt for me to appreciate keeping more of
the money I earn?
\_ YOUR anecdote trumps all statistics! The
economy is roaring like never before! Bush
has created millions of jobs!...oh wait, right,
he'll likely be the first president since
Hoover to have negative job growth...maybe them
pesky tax cuts aren't working out so well.
\_ He was asked how many job he created, he
answered and then you attack him for
answering! BWHAHAHAHAHA! YOU SO FUNNY!
\_ The recession started at the end of the
Clinton years. The troubles in high tech
(and certainly in the telecom space where
I play) now comes from over investment
during the boom years. Blame runaway
optimism in the 90's if you want to assign
blame. The price of getting drunk is the
hangover.
\_ Uh huh. I seem to recall Clinton pulling
us out of a similar recession in 92 quite
capably. Then again, he didn't go
starting some useless disaster of a war
either. Sorry, you're still FIRED!
\_ According to the National Bureau of
Economic Reserach, that recession
went from 7/1990 to 3/1991. It ended
well before the start of the Clinton
terms. They also said the current
recession was from 3/2000 to 11/2001.
This started 3 months after the start
of the GWB presidency, but it's still
hard to pin it on him since it started
only 3 months into his watch. Please
try to base your argument on data
instead of urban myths and silly
catch phrases.
\_ Facts just trip us up and get in
the way of our partisan frothing
and mewling. --wannabe motd lib
\_ Is this the first presidential election your friends have
voted in? This convention back and forth is typical.
\_ Late 30's, not likely their first election. Kerry can't
win this election; Bush can lose it. It doesn't seem like
Bush will lose.
\_ Still too close to call, exactly the wrong time to give
up hope. Kick your friends in the ass for me.
\_ Not really. Unless Bush rapes a nun on national TV,
the whole thing is done.
\_ In your dreams. It is not even close to finished.
It isn't even halftime yet. Do you even bother
to look at polls or do you just figure you can
predict the future better than the experts?
\_ http://hosted.ap.org/photos/R/RNC18709020300-big.jpg
http://hosted.ap.org/photos/R/RNC18809020300-big.jpg
A picture speaks a thousand words.
\_ All I can say about Zell Miller is: YEEEEEAAAAARGHHHHHHH!!!!!
\_ Really? 'Cos "sell-out" and "collaborator" are what I'd
say about the man. Mind you, that pic doesn't exactly
catch him in his best light: you know, a smoky back room....
\_ Just curious, did you feel the same way when the Senate
briefly changed hands when whats his face switched to
voting (D) from (R) a few months after he was elected
using (R) funds? Or were you cheering like a partisan
hypocrite?
\_ The difference there is Jeffords actually followed his
conscience instead of hanging onto a misnomer like Zell
does. Also, he didn't "vote (D)". He tossed his vote
to the (D)'s for organizing the Senate and to give them
the majority and changed his affiliation to (I). He
didn't necessarily vote with them on their bills. In
fact, looking at what little that session did, his
switch didn't really do all that much.
\_ Jeffords was called a traitor, etc, by the (R) side.
He did the one thing which fucked the (R) for that
entire time period. Voting however afterwards
doesn't matter as there are many in both parties who
cross lines for various things. In this case, he
fucked his party so he could get the chairmanship
of a dairy committee he wanted to control for his
dairy state. So short sighted and stupid he now has
nothing and his state got fucked twice over. What an
idiot. Anyway, as I said, you thought it was a-ok
for a (R) to turn coat but it is treason of the
highest order when a (D) does it. Hypocrite. At
least try to be honest with your rationalizations.
\_ Nah, I just meant he had some serious Howard Dean moments
last night. First he chewed the scenery up with that
speech ("unleash rage" was the headline that the AP had).
Then he goes on Hardball and keeps challenging Chris
Matthews to a duel!
\_ Well, maybe he was having a Ted Koppel moment (TK
challenged Jon Stewart to a duel on The Daily Show).
\_ It doesn't matter how it played to some motd/Bay Area
leftists. It matters that a Democrat Senator got on TV
and said his country was more important than his party
and that his party was fucked. |
| 5/25 |
|
| www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/leave.htm Click here Claim: Some celebrities promised to leave the USA if George W Bush won the 2000 presidential election. Origins: Promises of an entertainment world exodus from the USA in the face of a Republican victory in the November 2000 presidential election began in August 2000, when USA Today reported the opinions of Pearl Jam's Eddie Vedder about the upcoming political contest: He's leaning toward Green Party candidate Ralph Nader, though he's reluctant to steal votes from Al Gore. A strong proponent of abortion rights, Vedder says, "With three Supreme Court positions opening in the next administration, I'm frightened to think of a Republican in office, especially one raised by a father who was in the CIA. I'm moving to a different country if little Damien II gets elected." Then, in mid-September, actor Alec Baldwin said something (exactly what he said, to whom, and when, remains elusive) which his wife, actress Kim Basinger, interpreted as a promise to leave the country should Bush win the presidency: In September, Alec Baldwin gave his own summing-up of a Bush administration's aims in his local paper, the East Hampton Star. Create an entire industry on the false promise of school vouchers? Many Americans, including his wife Kim Basinger, interpreted this as a promise to leave. "Alec is the biggest moralist I know," Basinger told the German magazine Focus. Mitchell Fink, gossip columnist for the New York Daily News, quickly ran a column in which Baldwin not only denied that he had said any such thing, but also maintained his wife had never spoken to Focus magazine: Welcome to Monday morning in Alec Baldwin's house. The actor isn't moving anywhere, no matter who wins and who loses in November, but that didn't stop hundreds of hard-core conservatives from flooding Baldwin's Web site with what he called "hideous and graphic" writings urging him to get out of the country and take his wife, Kim Basinger, with him. All this started because of a piece in the German magazine Focus, which quotes Basinger as saying that her husband would flee America if Bush beats Al Gore. The article also says that Basinger, who co-starred with her husband in "The Getaway," would stick with Baldwin if he decided to make good on his threat to get away. The only problem is that Baldwin never threatened anything. "I never said I'd leave the country, and my wife never heard of Focus magazine and never talked to them," Baldwin told me. Baldwin suspects that the German mag may be confusing him with director Robert Altman, who said during the recent Deauville Film Festival in France that he would leave America if Bush wins. For the record, here's what Baldwin definitely in Gore's corner will do if his man loses: "I'll raise as much money as I can to make sure that this Bush winds up like the last Bush, a one-term President." But, as James Hebert then reported in the San Diego Union-Tribune, Baldwin soon flip-flopped and admitted that his wife had talked to Focus magazine, and equivocated by denying that he'd said he would definitely leave the country: Alec Baldwin insists he never said that he would leave the country if George W Bush were elected president. The German magazine Focus insists that his wife, Kim Basinger, said in an interview that Baldwin did utter such a promise. What makes the episode interesting is that it has turned into something of a cat fight between New York gossip columnists. The New York Post's Richard Johnson accuses Mitchell Fink, of the rival Daily News, of being a dupe by backing up Baldwin's denial. Baldwin, Johnson says, "frantically tried to back off his bombastic promise (to leave the country) with a statement planted yesterday in Mitchell Fink's gullible column." A bit belatedly, Fink has Baldwin acknowledging that Basinger spoke to Focus. "But my wife and I never said unequivocally that we would leave the country if Bush won. Also in September, American film director Robert Altman made no bones about his intentions to become an expatriate should Bush be the victor in November: US director Robert Altman, in France to promote his latest film Dr. T and the Women, said yesterday he would move to France if George W Bush wins the American presidential election in November. Altman said he normally did not comment on politics at home, but thought a Republican victory "would be a catastrophe for the whole world." to get out of Dodge if George W Bush" were to be elected: "I don't want any more Bush presidents," the 75-year-old Salinger writes in the new Georgetowner newspaper. "If Bush wins, I'm going to leave the country and spend the rest of my life in France." Similar promises were also attributed to several other celebrities whom most people would consider to be far over to the liberal end of the political spectrum, but we could find no record of their having made such statements: * Barbra Streisand: Singer Barbra Streisand reportedly said at President Clinton's final formal White House dinner in December 2000, "I don't think you'll see me around here for at least four years." Her press agents later added that the "here" in her statement referred to the White House, not the USA. this is really scary" -- but nothing about leaving the country should Bush win. What happened to those celebrities who had said they'd flee the country? The London Times' Jack Malvern attempted to track them down a few days after Bush's inauguration on 20 January 2001. Alec Baldwin was sticking to his previous denial: Alec was busy denying everything. "My wife never heard of Focus magazine and never talked to them," he told the New York Daily News on August 19. Then, on August 20: "Kim did indeed speak to a Focus magazine . but my wife and I never said unequivocally that we would leave the country if Bush won. But Baldwin disputed that he said he'd leave the country if George W Bush were elected. Bush to rest assured that I'm not going to leave the country because we have to get him out of office and we have to get his brother out of office in 2004. Even if he had made the statement, Baldwin said there was still no reason to leave. "Bush wasn't elected, he was selected - selected by five judges up in Washington who voted along party lines," Baldwin said. Robert Altman, who had since re-interpreted his previous remarks, was disinclined to offer further comment: Second up the gangplank was the film director Robert Altman, the man behind such films as Short Cuts and The Player. "If George Bush gets elected President, I will move back to France," he told reporters at the Cannes film festival. Despite the fact that this statement was caught on film, Altman later denied making it. has only got as far as Hawaii, where, his spokesman explains, he is commiserating by "catching a wave". "He won't be leaving the US but he is extremely disappointed," says Matt Reynolds of Epic Records Pierre Salinger, at least, reportedly stuck to his guns: In fact, the only person who has made good on his promise is Pierre Salinger, former press secretary to President Kennedy, who is moving to France. htm Urban Legends Reference Pages 1995-2003 by Barbara and David P Mikkelson This material may not be reproduced without permission References: Sources: Chocano, Carina. |