Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 33169
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2025/05/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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2004/8/26 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:33169 Activity:high
8/26    Read Kerry's 1971 book The New Soldier.  Covers features
        hippies and an upside down flag mocking Iwo Jima
        http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=NewSoldier
        \_ Ah, I get it.  Since the Swifties have been utterly discredited,
           the next step is to simply attack his anti-war activism.  Good work
           guys.  You've done a fantastic job of distracting a good segment of
           the press from reporting on the dismal presidency of George W. Bush.
           \_ If they're so discretied then why are Kerry's poll numbers
           \_ If they're so discredited then why are Kerry's poll numbers
              dropping and they're more in the news now than ever?
              \_ Ugh.  The debates will help settle down the poll jitter.
                 Unfortunately they're both so uncharismatic, it's hard to
                 handicap what will happen.
                 \_ I think Bush is charismatic but a poor speaker while
                    Kerry is uncharismatic but speaks well
                    \_ I hate hearing Kerry speak.  His speechifying is really
                       annoying.  Why can't he just, ya know, speak?!
                       \_ I don't know what you're talking about.  I've
                          heard Kerry's speeches and they're fine, just like
                          Clinton, HW Bush, and Reagan's.
           \_ They haven't changed their position and most of their
              accusations have not be rebutted in any way whatsoever.
              \_ You haven't been paying much attention.  "I was in Cambodia"
                 "I wasn't in Cambodia" "I support John Kerry in his Senate
                 run" "John Kerry is unfit for command" "We have no connection
                 to those swift boat people" "Our legal counsel and a couple
                 of campaign event organizers are quitting because they are
                 the swift boats' counsel or APPEARED IN THE DAMN COMMERCIAL"
                 You're a tool.  Wake the fuck up.
                 \_ As opposed to Kerry who has been so consistent on his
                    Vietnam record once challenged?  If Kerry would just sign
                    Form 180, he'd bury them.  If he's telling the truth.
              \_ "have not be rebutted in any way whatsoever [sic]"?
                 http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231
                 There's some rebuttal for ya!
                 \_ Your link is stupid.  However, some additional evidence
                    has finally come out about the Rassman PH, but this is
                    not it.  Link = worthless information, they don't
                    even understand the allegations.
                    \_ Your post = stupid / worthless information.
                       Write down what "most of their accusations have not been
                       rebutted in any way whatsoever" refers to, and I will
                       rebut it.
                       (Factual rebuttals have been posted to the motd over
                       the last several weeks, so I assume you have just been
                       igoring those and criticizing the non-fact-based
                       rebuttals, which would be incredibly dishonest of you.)
        \_ I read it.  It's almost entirely:
           (1) Short statements from individual vets, and
           (2) John Kerry's 1971 statement before congress
           It's pretty boring really.  The quotes are similar to senior quotes
           in high school yearbooks.  There are at least some claims that some
           vets in the VVAW weren't actually Vietnam vets, but I don't know if
           anyone has verified that the quotes in the book are all from Vietnam
           vets.
           \_ I like where he criticizes the VFW and American Legion calling
              them irrelevant.
2025/05/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/25    

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Cache (949 bytes)
ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=NewSoldier
Kerry Lied Rally, Upper Senate Park, Washington, DC This is the primary national rally by veterans and those who support them to tell the truth about Vietnam veterans. FrontPage Magazine interviews Scott Swett Media Appearances Friday, August 20 at 5:00 pm Eastern: Bruce Kesler will appear with J D Brooks on "5 Alive" at WHAW 980 AM for 30 minutes, followed by Scott Swett at 5:30 (talk radio, West Virginia). Since its publication in 1971, John Kerry's book "The New Soldier" has acquired almost legendary status. Rumors abound of political operatives scrambling to locate and suppress stray copies during Kerry's House campaign in 1972. In this section we present an overview of the book, along with most of the text and selected photographs. Much of the text consists of John Kerry's testimony before the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations on April 22, 1971, and quotes from other members of the VVAW taken from the Winter Soldier testimony.
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www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231
Printer Friendly Version Summary A group funded by the biggest Republican campaign donor in Texas began running an attack ad Aug. But the veterans who accuse Kerry are contradicted by Kerry's former crewmen, and by Navy records. One of the accusers says he was on another boat "a few yards" away during the incident which won Kerry the Bronze Star, but the former Army lieutenant whom Kerry plucked from the water that day backs Kerry's account. One of the veterans who says Kerry wasn't under fire was himself awarded a Bronze Star for aiding others "in the face of enemy fire" during the same incident. Analysis "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" is a group formed March 23 after Kerry wrapped up the Democratic nomination. It held a news conference May 4 denigrating Kerry's military record and his later anti-war pronouncements during the 1970's. John Edwards: "If you have any questions about what John Kerry is made of, just spend 3 minutes with the men who served with him." George Elliott: John Kerry has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam. Louis Letson: I know John Kerry is lying about his first Purple Heart because I treated him for that injury. Jack Chenoweth: His account of what happened and what actually happened are the difference between night and day. Larry Thurlow: When he chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry. Shelton White: John Kerry betrayed the men and women he served with in Vietnam. Bob Hildreth (off camera) : John Kerry cannot be trusted. Where the Money Comes From Although the word "Republican" does not appear in the ad, the group's financing is highly partisan. The Silver Star Several of those who appear in the ad have signed brief affidavits, and we have posted some of them in the "supporting documents" section to the right for our visitors to evaluate for themselves. One of those affidavits, signed by George Elliott, quickly became controversial. Elliott is the retired Navy captain who had recommended Kerry for his highest decoration for valor, the Silver Star, which was awarded for events of Feb. Elliott, who had been Kerry's commanding officer, was quoted by the Boston Globe Aug 6 as saying he had made a "terrible mistake" in signing the affidavit against Kerry, in which Elliott suggested Kerry hadn't told him the truth about how he killed the enemy soldier. Later Elliott signed a second affidavit saying he still stands by the words in the TV ad. But Elliott also made what he called an "immaterial clarification" - saying he has no first-hand information that Kerry was less than forthright about what he did to win the Silver Star. What Elliott said in the ad is that Kerry "has not been honest about what happened in Viet Nam." In his original affidavit Elliott said Kerry had not been "forthright" in Vietnam. The only example he offered of Kerry not being "honest" or "forthright" was this: "For example, in connection with his Silver Star, I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back. In the Globe story, Elliott is quoted as saying it was a "terrible mistake" to sign that statement: George Elliott (Globe account): It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. In his second affidavit, however, Elliott downgraded that "terrible mistake" to an "immaterial clarification." He said in the second affidavit: Elliott (second affidavit): I do not claim to have personal knowledge as to how Kerry shot the wounded, fleeing Viet Cong. Elliott also said he now believes Kerry shot the man in the back, based on other accounts including a book in which Kerry is quoted as saying of the soldier, "He was running away with a live B-40 (rocket launcher) and, I thought, poised to turn around and fire it." It mischaracterizes the actual basis on which Kerry received his decoration. The official citations show Kerry was not awarded the Silver Star "for simply pursuing and dispatching" the Viet Cong. The longest of the citations, signed by Vice Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, commander of US naval forces in Vietnam, describes Kerry as killing a fleeing Viet Cong with a loaded rocket launcher. It says that as Kerry beached his boat to attack his second set of ambushers, "an enemy soldier sprang up from his position not ten feet from Patrol Craft Fast 94 and fled. Without hesitation, Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY leaped ashore, pursued the man behind a hooch, and killed him, capturing a B-40 rocket launcher with a round in the chamber." One was signed by Admiral John J Hyland, commander in chief of the Pacific Fleet, and the other was signed by the Secretary of the Navy. Both those citations say Kerry attacked his first set of ambushers and that "this daring and courageous tactic surprised the enemy and succeeded in routing a score of enemy soldiers." Later, 800 yards away, Kerry's boat encountered a second ambush and a B-40 rocket exploded "close aboard" Kerry's boat. "With utter disregard for his own safety, and the enemy rockets, he again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his boat only ten feet away from the VC rocket position, and personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy." In these citations there is no mention of enemy casualties at all. Kerry was cited for "extraordinary daring and personal courage . in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire." Elliott had previously defended Kerry on that score when his record was questioned during his 1996 Senate campaign. At that time Elliott came to Boston and said Kerry acted properly and deserved the Silver Star. And as recently as June, 2003, Elliott called Kerry's Silver Star "well deserved" and his action "courageous" for beaching his boat in the face of an ambush: Elliott (Boston Globe, June 2003): I ended up writing it up for a Silver Star, which is well deserved, and I have no regrets or second thoughts at all about that. Elliott now feels differently, and says he has come to believe Kerry didn't deserve his second award for valor, either, based only on what the other anti-Kerry veterans have told him. William B Rood commanded another Swift Boat during the same operation and was awarded the Bronze Star himself for his role in attacking the Viet Cong ambushers. He said Kerry and he went ashore at the same time after being attacked by several Viet Cong onshore. first-person account of the incident in its Sunday edition. Rood said he had refused all interviews about Kerry's war record, even from reporters for his own paper, until motivated to speak up because Kerry's critics are telling "stories I know to be untrue" and "their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us." Rood described two Viet Cong ambushes, both of them routed using a tactic devised by Kerry who was in tactical command of a three-boat operation. At the second ambush only the Rood and Kerry boats were attacked. Rood: Kerry, followed by one member of his crew, jumped ashore and chased a VC behind a hooch--a thatched hut--maybe 15 yards inland from the ambush site. Some who were there that day recall the man being wounded as he ran. Neither I nor Jerry Leeds, our boat's leading petty officer with whom I've checked my recollection of all these events, recalls that, which is no surprise. Recollections of those who go through experiences like that frequently differ. With our troops involved in the sweep of the first ambush site, Richard Lamberson, a member of my crew, and I also went ashore to search the area. I was checking out the inside of the hooch when I heard gunfire nearby. Not long after that, Kerry returned, reporting that he had killed the man he chased behind the hooch. He also had picked up a loaded B-40 rocket launcher, which we took back to our base in An Thoi after the operation. Rood disputed an account of the incident given by John O'Neill in his book "Unfit for Command," which describes the man Kerry chased as a "teenager" in a "loincloth." Rood said, "I have no idea how old the gunner Kerry chased that day was, but both Leeds and I recall that he was a grown man, dressed in the kind of garb the VC usually wore." The Bronze Star The most serious allegation in the ad is that ...