8/26    Don't bicyclists ever stop at stop signs?  I almost leveled one this
        morning when he didn't.  He had a stop, I didn't.  He didn't stop,
        I almost didn't also.  He almost died, I almost dented my hood.
        \_ I ask myself the same question when I drive around my new home,
           Bloomington, Indiana (aka "Breaking Away"). But bicyclists run
           this town, so I just take a couple extra seconds to watch the
           intersections. -elizp
        \__ He is supposed to stop.  But if you hit him you would have a lot of
           explanation to do because the justice system favors pedestrians and
           bicyclists over drivers.
           \_ Haha!  Yeah right!  The system promotes killing with impugnity.
           \_ If it takes a few dead cyclists to get them to understand that
              they should at least look before running the sign, it would be
              worth it.
           \_ you are full of shit. fuck you. please choke on a donut and
              die.
              \_ Wow, that was really useful commentary!  Thank you for
                 joining us today!  Where would the motd be without uber
                 geniuses like you to show us how to engage in meaningful
                 and civil discourse?
                 \_  I'm still waiting. eat yer fuckin' donuts.
                    \_ I'm still waiting for more useful and intelligent
                       commentary from you.  Thanks for being here!
           \_ This is a myth. Find a URL or back down. I've seen cops and
              judges react to cases involving bikes and saw absolutely no
              favor for the bicyclist when the bicyclist broke the law.
              I'll give that I cannot speak for pedestrians. The one case I
              saw a piece of before a judge, the pedestrian broke no laws.
                -- ulysses
              \_ Pedestrians effectively always have the right of way, whether
                 or not they're breaking a law.  Bikes are vehicles and must
                 respect all traffic signs and RoW rules.
           \_ Agreed.  But he'd be dead, and I would just have a legal hassle.
              He's still way behind on the deal.
        \_ I do.
        \_ I do.  It's a no-win situation.  Half the cars expect you to blow
           through the stop sign and refuse to go until you do.
           \_ OK.  Why is that a no win situation?  Stop, then, if others
              yield to you, go.
              \_ Either he hits a bicyclist or is made to wait for one.  It's
                 obviously terrible.
                 \_ That's not at all what he said.  He's trying to be a
                    responsible citizen, you're being an ass.
        \_ I have been biking around Berkeley for 5 years now and I find it even
           more appalling that many bicyclists seem to ignore the traffic lights
           even at very busy intersections. They seem to think that the same
           rules don't apply to the just because they're riding a bike.
        \_ I have been biking around Berkeley for 5 years now and I find it
           even more appalling that many bicyclists seem to ignore the traffic
           lights even at very busy intersections. They seem to think that the
           same rules don't apply to them just because they're riding a bike.
           \_ When I lived in berkeley, I found it appalling that cars
              wouldn't stop for pedestrians in a crosswalk!  -meyers
              \_ The fact that cars don't stop for pedestrians shouldn't
                 justify bikes not stopping at stops.
              \_ I don't drive in Berkeley anymore but when I did I sometimes
                 drove through because pedestrians would walk non stop in
                 trickles no matter what the lights said.  If a car didn't
                 push forward a bit in a pedestrian gap they'd be there all day
                 \_ I got a jaywalking ticket once (no traffic in sight) from
                    an overzealous motorcycle cop who'd passed a few seconds
                    earlier.  I had to appear in court (forget the details)
                    but couldn't, as I was on holidays abroad.  The bitch in
                    charge of Berkeley court menial stuff told my mom "but he
                    committed a crime, that's his problem."  Some interesting
                    priorities there.  -John
        \_ http://www.bclu.org/stops
           \_ STOPS SHOULD BE YIELDS FOR BIKES!  YES!!!
              \_ Stops should be yields for cars, too!  There should be no
                 laws or rules because they inconvenience me!!!