Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 33080
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2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

2004/8/23 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:33080 Activity:high
8/23    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21239-2004Aug21.html
        Interesting article that at tries to look at the facts in dispute in
        the swift boat issue.
        \_ From article:
           But yesterday, The Post independently contacted a participant who
           has not spoken out so far in favor of either camp who remembers
           coming under enemy fire. "There was a lot of firing going on, and
           it came from both sides of the river," said Wayne D. Langhofer,
           who manned a machine gun aboard PCF-43, the boat that was
           directly behind Kerry's. Langhofer said he distinctly remembered
           the "clack, clack, clack" of enemy AK-47s, as well as muzzle
           flashes from the riverbanks.
        \_ The real issue is why has the Bush administration so royally
           screwed up Iraq and why haven't they come up with an exit strategy?
           \_ I don't know, I'm too busy trying to figure out whether Kerry
              was a real war hero or not.
              \_ See, that's just it: which of these issues continues to get
                 American soldiers killed? Wake up, folks, we're being conned.
                 \_ Regardless of what the Kerry or Bush camps say about Iraq,
                    I think most Americans feel it in a reluctance to travel
                    abroad with their families.  There is distinct
                    anti-Americanism that is justified by:  We didn't do it
                    with a broad coalition or UN approval, we didn't find WMDs,
                    and the world is less safe because of U.S. unilateral
                    action.  Saddam is out, but everyone hates us and we
                    don't feel safer.
        \_ From the similar LA Times article a day earlier:
           Navy rules during the Vietnam War governing Purple Hearts did not
           take into account a wound's severity - and specified only that
           injuries had to be suffered "in action against an enemy."
           Self-inflicted wounds were awarded if incurred "in the heat of
           battle, and not involving gross negligence." Kerry's critics insist
           his wound would not have qualified, but former Navy officials who
           worked in the service's awards branch at the time said such awards
           were routine. [Firing on VC from boat; Swift Boat Vets say shrapnel
           was from his own grenade launcher, grenade exploded too close to
           boat; Kerry says doesn't know where it came from]
2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

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Cache (8192 bytes)
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21239-2004Aug21.html
Swift Boat Accounts Incomplete Critics Fail to Disprove Kerry's Version of Vietnam War Episode By Michael Dobbs Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, August 22, 2004; Page A01 When John F Kerry rescued Jim Rassmann from the Bay Hap River in the jungles of Vietnam in March 1969, neither man could possibly have imagined that the episode would become a much-disputed focus of an American presidential campaign 35 years later. For Kerry, then a green and gangly Navy lieutenant junior grade and now the Democratic challenger to a wartime Republican president, that tale of heroism under fire has become integral to his campaign. A centerpiece of public rallies, videos and a new campaign advertisement, it has helped distinguish the candidate from his Democratic primary rivals and from President Bush, who spent the war at home as a member of the Texas Air National Guard. US Navy Swift boat skippers John F Kerry, left, and William B Rood at their base in An Thoi, South Vietnam, in late February 1969 after military action for which Kerry was awarded the Silver Star and Rood the Bronze Star. President Bush's Military Service Records A Record Questioned Members of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth have challenged several aspects of John F Kerry's military record in addition to his account of the March 13, 1969, mission for which he was awarded the Bronze Star; Among the events at issue: Kerry's First Purple Heart Dec. What his challengers say: Kerry took a tiny fragment of shrapnel when he fired an M-79 grenade too close to his boat, inflicting his own wound, which was trivial. What available military records say: A medical report on Kerry's injury was signed by JC Carreon, not Louis Letson, the doctor who treated Kerry, according to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Letson says that Carreon, a corpsman, routinely drew up reports on his behalf. Christmas in Cambodia December 1968 What Kerry has said: Over the years, he has repeatedly said he was illegally ordered into Cambodia during Christmas 1968. Last week, his campaign issued a statement saying he was in Cambodia but did not specify a date. What his challengers say: At the time, Kerry was stationed in an area about 50 miles from the Cambodian border, and he never entered that country then or at any other time during his service in Vietnam. What available military records say: Kerry's boat at the time, PCF-44, was 40 to 50 miles south of the Cambodian border at 7 am on Christmas Eve. With a cruising speed of 23 knots, the boat could have reached the border in about two hours, but there is no archival evidence it did so. Support for Kerry's account came yesterday from the only other surviving Swift boat commander to witness the incident, William B Rood. What his challengers say: Kerry's conduct was neither extraordinary nor medal-worthy; the decoration was based on false and incomplete information that Kerry provided and was not properly reviewed; ordering the craft beached reflected poor tactical judgment. What available military records say: The Silver Star citation describes the beaching of the boat and says, "Without hesitation Lt. Kerry leaped ashore, pursued the man behind a hootch and killed him, capturing a B-40 rocket launcher with a round in the chamber." SOURCES: "Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War" by Douglas Brinkley; "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry" by John E O'Neill and Jerome R Corsi; News Alert For the Massachusetts senator's critics, who include three of the five Swift boat skippers who were present that day, the incident demonstrates why Kerry does not deserve to be commander in chief. They accuse him of cowardice, hogging the limelight and lying. Far from displaying coolness under fire, they say, Kerry was never fired upon and fled the scene at the moment of maximum danger. Establishing the facts is complicated not merely by fading memories and sometimes ambiguous archival evidence, but also by the bitterly partisan nature of the presidential campaign. An investigation by The Washington Post into what happened that day suggests that both sides have withheld information from the public record and provided an incomplete, and sometimes inaccurate, picture of what took place. But although Kerry's accusers have succeeded in raising doubts about his war record, they have failed to come up with sufficient evidence to prove him a liar. Two best-selling books have formed the basis for public discussion of the events of March 13, 1969, as a result of which Kerry won a Bronze Star and his third Purple Heart. The fullest account of Kerry's experience in Vietnam is "Tour of Duty" by prominent presidential historian Douglas Brinkley. It was written with Kerry's cooperation and with exclusive access to his diaries and other writings about the Vietnam War. "Unfit for Command," by John E O'Neill, who succeeded Kerry as commander of his Swift boat, and Jerome R Corsi, lays out a detailed attack on Kerry's record. The Post's research shows that both accounts contain significant flaws and factual errors. This reconstruction of the climactic day in Kerry's military career is based on more than two dozen interviews with former crewmates and officers who served with him, as well as research in the Naval Historical Center here, where the Swift boat records are preserved. Kerry himself was the only surviving skipper on the river that day who declined a request for an interview. On the core issue of whether Kerry was wounded under enemy fire, thereby qualifying for a third Purple Heart, the Navy records clearly favor Kerry. Several documents, including the after-action report and the Bronze Star citation for a Swift boat skipper who has accused Kerry of lying, refer to "all units" coming under "automatic and small-weapons fire." The eyewitness accounts, on the other hand, are conflicting. Kerry's former crew members support his version, as does Rassmann, the Special Forces officer rescued from the river. But many of the other skippers and enlisted men who were on the river that day dispute Kerry's account and have signed up with Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a public advocacy group that has aired television advertisements accusing Kerry of lying about his wartime service. From an outsider's perspective, the flotilla of five 50-foot Swift boats that followed the Bay Hap River that humid March day has spawned two competing bands of brothers. One is fiercely loyal to Kerry and frequently appears with him at campaign events. The other dislikes him intensely and is doing everything it can to block his election. Many Swift boat veterans opposed to Kerry acknowledge that their disgust with him was fueled by his involvement in the antiwar movement. When they returned from Vietnam, they say, they were dogged by accusations of atrocities. While Kerry went on to make a prominent political career, they got jobs as teachers, accountants, surveyors and oil field workers. When he ran for president, partly on the strength of his war record, their resentment exploded. At one level, an attempt to establish what happened during a Vietcong ambush on the Bay Hap River 35 years ago is a simple search for facts. At another, it is the story of the divisions that tore the United States, and its armed forces, into two opposing camps at the time of the Vietnam War -- tensions that have resurfaced with a vengeance during the current political campaign. 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