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| 5/24 |
| 2004/8/19 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:33027 Activity:high |
8/19 Tapes would be sent from the United States to North Vietnam to
broadcast over Radio Hanoi to get U.S. servicemen to stop fighting in
Vietnam
http://www.aim.org/media_monitor_print/1497_0_2_0
\_ "I wish we would stop opening wounds from a war of more than 30
years ago and talk about the war we're fighting now," McCain told
The AP. "I believe [both Kerry and Bush] served honorably."
\_ So you do exactly what McCain tells you?
\_ No, it just means, gosh, you're really really stretching, and
McCain's quote is just for you.
\_ Fine go ahead and vote for a traitor. It will fit you
perfectly!
\_ The problem is you haven't shown Kerry is a "traitor".
In fact, the vast majority of Americans would not say
Kerry is a "traitor", otherwise there would be "Is
Kerry a traitor?" Gallup polls. You just sound very,
very partisan, i.e., like a freeper.
\_ to a tee. Oooh you invoked the 'freeper' word.
Go join Al Qaeda, this way you can parallel
Kerry's career.
\_ I agree, you do sound quite partisan, and like
a freeper to a tee! Your second sentence doesn't
make sense though.
\_ Yep I am one of those evil oppessors who
believes in the Constitution, self-
responsibility, and limited government.
I'll complete the analogy. Kerry effectively
fought for the NVA, so you too can fight
for Al Qaeda. Go for it!
\_ "You are either with us, or you are with the
terrorists!" You sound suspiciously like a
a traitor to me, citizen!
\_ Right, so let's give the government all of
our guns. Contradictory twit.
\_ There is so much sarcasm I'm confused.
\_ http://csua.org/u/8o7 (LA Times)
Kerry recalled his opposition to VVAW leaders meeting with North
Vietnamese officials. "I thought that would be disastrous to the
credibility of the organization," he said, "to the people we were
trying to convince about the war."
Kerry soon left VVAW, which he thought had lost its focus.
\_ Kerry met with them twice.
\_ When and why?
\_ Because he is a traitor - from the Congressional
Record:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1097828/posts
But this is forgery right?
\_ "Because he is a traitor" is not an answer.
\_ Just for starters... after the meeting
Kerry assiduously advocated the NVA
terms for truce. For example,
watch Kerry do exactly this in his
debate with O'Neill (yes of SBVFT) in
1971 on CSPAN. It's one thing to
protest against the war, but Kerry
was an effusive, vocal (maybe unwitting?)
advocate for the enemy, repeatedly.
\_ From my reading, he met with both sides, and
he advocated for a truce on terms negotiated by
both sides. He also was attempting to get
our POWs back. What is wrong with this?
It's not like the President has to honor whatever
Kerry comes back with (and the President never
did, anyway). What about any of this makes him a
"traitor"? Selling arms to the enemy, giving
vital military information, or defecting is what
a traitor does. Being anti-war and attempting
to negotiate a truce, regardless of which side
you talk to, may show disunity on your side and
is illegal for a private citizen to do, but is
nowhere on the same level as being a "traitor".
Finally, remember, this is not WW2, where Japan
preemptively attacked Pearl Harbor; this is
Vietnam, where the U.S. carpet bombed and
4 million civilians died to 1 million enemy
soldiers, and where we were wrong in the Tonkin
incident.
\_ And let's not forget that this war was
immensely unpopular back at home.
\_ Reagan met with the communists several times, the traitor.
\_ But he was President at the time. Kerry was talking
with the enemy as a citizen. |
| 5/24 |
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| www.aim.org/media_monitor_print/1497_0_2_0 Judicial Watch has performed a public service by posting 50 pages of FBI documents about John Kerry's involvement in Vietnam Veterans Against the War, VVAW. The problem is that the media aren't interested in what they have to say. They show that members of VVAW were close to the Communist Party USA and collaborated with the enemy, communist North Vietnam. The FBI documents refer to the "possible violence-prone posture" of VVAW and how the group is coming under "subversive influence or control." Critics might say this is just heated rhetoric from an FBI that was determined to discredit the anti-war movement, but the facts in the documents demonstrate why this group came under surveillance. It worked hand-in-glove with the regime killing Americans on the battlefield. The documents on several occasions report that Kerry believed that one of the founders of VVAW, Al Hubbard, who claimed to be a decorated Vietnam vet, had never served in Vietnam, and had never been a member of the military. One document says, "John Kerry again attempted to have Al Hubbard voted off the executive committee as Kerry stated he did not think Hubbard ever served in Vietnam or was ever in service." But the FBI reported that "Hubbard has strong backing in the VVAW organization since he is one of the original founders and is friendly with most of the executive committee members." Kerry and Hubbard appeared together on Meet the Press on behalf of the VVAW. the FBI documents refer to his travels abroad and association with the Communist Party USA. One document discusses Hubbard's visit to Paris to meet with representatives of communist North Vietnam. Hubbard is quoted as saying the communists invited him and members of the then-Moscow-funded Communist Party USA. A document reports that Hubbard even said his trip to Paris "was financed by the CPUSA." The document says that Hubbard was trying to arrange for VVAW to accept American POWs released by Hanoi. There are two references in the FBI documents to VVAW members making propaganda tapes for Radio Hanoi. One says, "Tapes would be sent from the United States to North Vietnam to broadcast over Radio Hanoi to get US servicemen to stop fighting in Vietnam" One VVAW employee is said to have traveled to Hanoi in August 1971 "and talked with several North Vietnam representatives. He said the reason for his trip to Hanoi ties in with the international action of active duty people to demonstrate against the Vietnam War." John Kerry's involvement in such a group is far more controversial than the President's National Guard record. As one of the FBI documents put it, VVAW had moved beyond "legitimate antiwar protest" to becoming a security threat to the US On National Review online, Ion Mihai Pacepa, the highest-ranking intelligence officer ever to have defected from the former Soviet bloc, said that Kerry's accusations of US soldiers committing war crimes in Vietnam sounded "exactly like the disinformation line that the Soviets were sowing worldwide throughout the Vietnam era." |
| csua.org/u/8o7 -> reclaimdemocracy.org/articles_2004/kerry_vvaw_cointelpro.html LA Times, March 22, 2004 Editor's note: While newspapers around the country carried brief wire service reports on this story, this article from the Los Angeles Times offers much more depth on a most serious issue. The wasteful politically-motivated use of valuable national security resources to harass and intimidate political activists did not end with COINTELPRO in the 1960s -- it continues today. We hope these revelations about the FBI's pursuit of Senator Kerry story will raise more people's awareness of this threat to our freedom and -- by diverting resources that should be used to pursue criminals -- our safety. As a high-profile activist who crossed the country criticizing the Nixon administration's role in the Vietnam War, John F Kerry was closely monitored by FBI agents for more than a year, according to intelligence documents reviewed by The Times. In 1971, in the months after the Navy veteran and decorated war hero argued before Congress against continued US involvement in the conflict, the FBI stepped up its infiltration of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, the protest group Kerry helped direct, the files show. The FBI documents indicate that wherever Kerry went, agents and informants were following - including appearances at VVAW-sponsored antiwar events in Washington; The FBI recorded the content of his speeches and took photographs of him and fellow activists, and the dispatches were filed to FBI Director J Edgar Hoover and President Nixon. The files contain no information or suggestion that Kerry broke any laws. And a 1972 memorandum on the FBI's decision to end its surveillance of him said the agency had discovered "nothing whatsoever to link the subject with any violent activity." Kerry, now the presumed Democratic presidential nominee, has long known he was a target of FBI surveillance, but only last week learned the extent of the scrutiny, he told The Times. The information was provided by Gerald Nicosia, a Bay Area author who obtained thousands of pages of FBI intelligence files and who gave copies of some documents to The Times. The FBI files shed new light on an early chapter in Kerry's public life and are another example of the extent to which the US intelligence apparatus monitored and investigated groups opposed to government policies during the Vietnam era, especially the Hoover-run FBI. FBI harassment of some activists and leaders in the antiwar and civil rights movements - including the Rev. The files reviewed by The Times on Kerry do not show that the FBI engaged in any illegal actions in its surveillance of him. But the documents also show the lengths the government went to investigate not only Kerry, but the VVAW and other antiwar groups. Intelligence officials referred to the VVAW in their reports as the "New Left." "Due to abundant indications of subversive influence, we are actively investigating VVAW," read one FBI report from 1971. The documents could become an important resource for historians because they show the extent of US government surveillance directed against an individual who, three decades later, may become president. They also suggest that Kerry's memories of some of his antiwar activities, including the date he left his position on the VVAW national steering committee, were inaccurate. Kerry has stated that he left the group in the summer of 1971, but the files show that he did not quit until the late fall of that year. Kerry said he was troubled by the scope of the monitoring documented in the papers. And I'm disturbed that it was all conducted absent of some showing of any legitimate probable cause. Kerry told The Times that knowing the scope of the government surveillance against him had made him more conscious of selecting the right people to run intelligence agencies. If elected president, he said, he would appoint an attorney general "who knows how to enforce laws in a way that balances law enforcement with our tradition of civil liberties." The FBI of today is on the front lines of the war on terror, and it's critical that they be effective," he said. "But the experience of having been spied on for the act of engaging in peaceful patriotic protest makes you respect the civil liberties and the Constitution even more." Kerry said that in 1987, two years after assuming office as a senator from Massachusetts, he requested and received an FBI dossier on himself. He later told aides it was "boring," and mostly included news clippings. The senator was apparently unaware that a much larger file existed that included reports on his activities as a VVAW leader. Kerry said he was disturbed by "this extensive component of spying" on him that wasn't in his file. "If I was the subject of individual surveillance and individual tape recordings, I'd have thought it would have been released to me," he said. Fourteen boxes of FBI files standing 12 feet high have been sitting for five years at Nicosia's home in Corte Madera. Many of the files include mention of Kerry, who became the VVAW's most widely recognized figure after he sought to make the case against the Vietnam War in testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in April 1971. His appearance was widely reported because of his stature as a veteran who had been awarded a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. As a lieutenant, Kerry had commanded swift boats patrolling the sniper-filled rivers across the Mekong Delta. "The Nixon people viewed antiwar protesters as anti-American subversives," said Douglas Brinkley, author of "Tour of Duty," a book that details Kerry's Vietnam-era exploits. "Because of his record as a war hero, they feared Kerry's influence with the public." Many FBI reports on Kerry relied on informants who had infiltrated the VVAW. One report, filed after a gathering in Oklahoma City on Nov. Kerry spoke against the war and encouraged young people to vote for candidates who will end the war. He said VVAW members will continue to be active in activities to end the war, but indicated that VVAW members are against any type of violence." Other former VVAW members recalled their suspicion that their telephones were being tapped and their concern that informants had infiltrated their ranks. Ann Barnes, who worked with the VVAW and who now lives in Milwaukee, said the protesters took the surveillance seriously. "Wherever you went, there'd be people taking your picture, writing down your license plate, doing what they did," she said. "I wasn't doing anything that I was worried about," he said. "That was the nature of the FBI and the dialogue of the times.... People used to joke about it more than anything, but it was frustrating." He added: "I remember coming out of a meeting and seeing one of their unmarked cruisers sitting there. Somebody had left a firearm on the seat, as a form of intimidation. When Nicosia began researching his book "Home to War," a history of the Vietnam veterans movement, he sent a Freedom of Information request in 1988 to the FBI seeking its VVAW surveillance files. Eleven years later, in 1999, he received 14 boxes of largely redacted files. But the release came too late for any significant inclusion in his look at the VVAW, which was founded in 1967 and drew 10,000 members nationwide. He had not read the files before allowing The Times to view a portion of them last week. After a call from Nicosia, Kerry aides came to his home to collect the same 50 pages of documents copied by The Times. The files show that Kerry and his activities within VVAW were a subject of FBI surveillance throughout the summer of 1971, during a time he had said he had already left the organization. The documents include evidence that Kerry did not resign from the VVAW's national steering committee until November 1971, during four days of meetings in Kansas City. Several Vietnam-era histories - and Kerry himself - had said his resignation occurred at a VVAW gathering in St. Previously, Kerry had denied being at the Kansas City gathering. But the FBI files, along with interviews with former VVAW members, indicate that he attended at least some portion of the meetings, using the occasion to resign his post as one of the group's nat... |
| www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1097828/posts Congressional Record ^ | March 15, 2004 | John Kerry Posted on 03/14/2004 11:09:52 PM PST by 8 Hon The Vietnam Veterans Against The War (VVAW) sent several delegations to Paris to meet with the representatives of the National Liberation Front (AKA Vietcong) and North Vietnamese in 1971. John Kerry went on at least one of these trips and met and "negotiated" with representatives of the VC and the government of North Vietnam. Present: Senators Fulbright, Symington, Pell, Aiken, Case, and Javits. Do you support or do you have any particular views about any one of them you wish to give the committee? My feeling, Senator, is undoubtedly this Congress, and I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but I do not believe that this Congress will, in fact, end the war as we would like to, which is immediately and unilaterallyand, therefore, if I were to speak I would say we would set a date and the date obviously would be the earliest possible date. But I would like to say, in answering that, that I do not believe it is necessary to stall any longer. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points it has been stated time and time again, and was stated by Senator Vance Hartke when he returned from Paris, and it has been stated by many other officials of this Government, if the United States were to set a date for withdrawal the prisoners of war would be returned. The Congress cannot directly under our system negotiate a cease-fire or anything of this kind. Under our constitutional system we can advise the President. We have to persuade the President of the urgency of taking this action. We can, of course, express ourselves in a resolution or we can pass an act which directly affects appropriations which is the most concrete positive way the Congress can express itself. But Congress has no capacity under our system to go out and negotiate a cease-fire. We have to persuade the Executive to do this for the country. Chairman, I realize that full well as a study of political science. I realize that we cannot negotiate treaties and I realize that even my visits in Paris, precedents had been set by Senator McCarthy and others, in a sense are on the borderline of private individuals negotiating, et cetera. I don't think we can turn our backs on that any longer, Senator. Source Here are all eight of Madam Binh's points (Binh was the Foreign Minister for the Vietcong) spelled out in the "People's Peace Treaty" that Kerry and the VVAW and signed, and which they demanded the US sign with North Vietnam and the National Liberation Front: Joint Treaty of Peace Between the People of The United States of America, South Vietnam and North Vietnam Preamble Be it known that the American people and the Vietnamese people are not enemies. The war is carried out in the names of the people of the United States and South Vietnam, but without our consent. It drains America of its resources, its youth, and its honor. We hereby agree to end the war on the following terms, so that both peoples can live under the joy of independence and can devote themselves to building a society based on human equality and respect for the earth. In rejecting the war we also reject all forms of racism and discrimination against people based on color, class, sex, national origin, and ethnic grouping which form the basis of the war policies, past and present, of the United States government. They will enter discussions on the procedures to guarantee the safety of all withdrawing troops. The Americans pledge to end the imposition of Thieu-Ky-Khiem on the people of South Vietnam in order to insure their right to self-determination and so that all political prisoners can be released. The Vietnamese pledge to form a provisional coalition government to organize democratic elections. All parties agree to respect the results of elections in which all South Vietnamese can participate freely without the presence of any foreign troops. The South Vietnamese pledge to enter discussion of procedures to guarantee the safety and political freedom of those South Vietnamese who have collaborated with the U. The Americans and Vietnamese agree to respect the independence, peace and neutrality of Laos and Cambodia in accord with the 1954 and 1962 Geneva Conventions and not to interfere in the internal affairs of these two countries. Upon these points of agreement, we pledge to end the war and resolve all other questions in the spirit of self-determination and mutual respect for the independence and political freedom of the people of Vietnam and the United States. Pledge By ratifying this agreement, we pledge to take whatever actions are appropriate to implement the terms of the People to people Treaty and to insure its acceptance by the government of the United States. Sometimes, it is more courageous to withstand the attacks of a bully and fight back, than to forever be cowed and beholden to the bully. All AQ wants is for us to leave the Middle East and for Israel to be destroyed. All the North Vietnamese (and the USSR and China) wanted was for the US to leave South Vietnam (and SE Asia in general) so that they could have all of Vietnam and the surrounding areas. Don't you just wish someone would ask him that question? He'd prostitute the USA, selling us out & giving away our freedoms. Supposedly, Marvin Kalb will be providing some background on the times. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works. |