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| 5/25 |
| 2004/8/17 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:32948 Activity:high |
8/17 LA times article written today on the swift boat controversy.
Covers the purple hearts, the medals, the rescue, the commercial,
Cambodia, the players.
http://csua.org/u/8mi
\_ I like the vague criticisms of the swifties. Nice.
\_ LAT? Should I bother reading it? I can get similar opinion from
The People's Weekly World.
\_ The article is fair and balanced. A consequence is it doesn't
come to any definite conclusions.
(You should also come off your obvious prejudice, where you
equate the LA Times with The People's Weekly World. It's like
saying: http://freerepublic.com? I can get a similar opinion from
The People's Weekly World.)
\_ You're debating an obviously inflammatory troll? Why bother?
\_ Then why doesn't the article mention that Elliot says that he
was misquoted by the Globe?
\_ "Then he issued a second affidavit standing by his first
sworn statement, saying he had been misquoted by the Globe."
\_ I have a better idea. Why don't you go to there sites and
read the accusations, which are all very well documented (e.g
photos, Congressional Records, FBI files). The question
remains, was Kerry in Cambodia with the CIA / SEALs or not?
\_ "there sites"? What do you mean?
The written evidence just shows that Kerry was not in Cambodia
on Christmas Day. Kerry also acknowledges this mistake.
As for whether he was *ever* in Cambodia, don't you think
conservatives would have loved to publish some hard facts
showing he was never there? They aren't able to, but they
can show he wasn't there on Christmas Day, which they have. |
| 5/25 |
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| csua.org/u/8mi -> news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/latimests/20040817/ts_latimes/veteransbattleoverthetruth By Maria L La Ganga and Stephen Braun Times Staff Writers A television ad that has aired in three key battleground states and a new book have created a political furor over John F Kerry's Vietnam War record, calling into question his character, credibility and a central tenet of his campaign -- that his combat experience helps qualify him to be president. Subscribe to the Los Angeles Times The ad, the book and the people behind them have become staples of conservative talk shows and Internet sites. The claims -- that Kerry lied about his war experiences, didn't deserve his medals and betrayed soldiers everywhere by protesting the war after serving in it -- also have been recited in the mainstream media, along with denials of the allegations. What military documentation exists and has been made public generally supports the view put forth by Kerry and most of his crewmates -- that he acted courageously and came by his Silver Star, Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts honestly. This view of Kerry as war hero is supported by all but one of the surviving veterans who served with him on the two boats he commanded. None of the critics quoted in the ad actually served on the boats with Kerry. Some of them also have given contradictory accounts and offered conflicting recollections. But what actually happened about 35 years ago along the remote southern coast of Vietnam remains murky. Some of Kerry's own recollections over the years, as presented in two biographies and many interviews, also have been inconsistent. Most of the documents offered by critics of the Democratic candidate are signed affidavits by 13 Swift boat veterans -- notarized memories of events that they say they witnessed from a boat or two away. The Kerry campaign has launched a vociferous defense, denying the charges raised in the ad. It also denounced the group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, as a Republican-backed effort. His staff has directed critics to the Massachusetts senator's military records, which have been posted on his website. The Bush campaign, for its part, says it has nothing to do with the Swift boat group attacking Kerry and has kept a distance -- neither endorsing nor denouncing the ad, which is airing in Ohio, Wisconsin and West Virginia. When asked about it Thursday on "Larry King Live," Bush said he had not seen it. Kerry, long accused of hair-splitting and nuance in his political positions, has left himself open to criticism by giving subtly varying accounts over the years of his Vietnam service and postwar activism. But his critics also have provided conflicting recollections. "War is by definition chaotic, and people are not taking notes in battle," said Jeffrey Berry, a political science professor at Tufts University in Medford, Mass. "In terms of the type of evidence that might be ideal for making a convincing case, there probably are some holes. They give an opening for people who want to say Kerry was embellishing." Members of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth say they have received $300,000 in new donations since the ad began airing Aug. The group's leaders confirmed that Robert J Perry, a Texas homebuilder, was their biggest original financier. Perry has given money to Bush's last four campaigns and is a major GOP donor in Texas. John O'Neill, a former Swift boat commander who served in Vietnam and a longtime Kerry foe, has been promoting his book -- "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry" -- on cable-TV talk shows such as "Crossfire" and "Hardball." The book, which amplifies the charges in the ad, began trickling into stores last week. com bestseller list, and a chapter has been posted on a conservative website. It is too soon to tell whether the claims are resonating with voters, but political observers say they could pose a serious risk for the Democratic candidate, particularly in such a close race. character continue and they start to take hold with swing voters and casual voters, it would be a big problem," said Stuart Rothenberg, publisher of a nonpartisan political newsletter. A charge like this that's ignored is a charge that's believed." web sites), Kerry's running mate, saying, "If you have any question about what John Kerry's made of, just spend three minutes with the men who served with him 30 years ago." Then eight words appear on the screen -- "Here's what those men think about John Kerry" -- and the allegations begin. They include comments such as: "John Kerry betrayed the men and women he served with in Vietnam," and "He lacks the capacity to lead." Many in the Swift boat group seem to be motivated as much by anger about Kerry's protest activities as they are about his actions in combat. In their affidavits, several write about Kerry's testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee as a leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War. In his April 1971 statement to the Senate panel, Kerry cited Vietnam atrocities that had been alleged by his group of antiwar veterans. And in blunt rhetoric, he questioned government policy that widened the toll among soldiers and civilians: "We learned the meaning of free-fire zones, shooting anything that moves, and we watched while America placed cheapness on the lives of Orientals." George Elliott, one of Kerry's immediate commanders, says: "John Kerry has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam." In his affidavit, Elliott said that when Kerry returned from Vietnam, he was "comparing his other commanders and me to Lt. Calley of My Lai, comparing the American armed forces to the army of Genghis Khan, and making similar misstatements." Joe Ponder, a Swift boat crewman who did not serve on either of Kerry's two boats, says in the ad that Kerry "dishonored his country." In his affidavit, Ponder says he was badly wounded in an ambush in Vietnam. But "the greatest wounds I have ever suffered were from John F Kerry, who dishonored my country, my honor and my friends by falsely charging the United States Army Forces with war crimes, claiming that all of us, living and dead, were war criminals." Although these are powerful statements, they are not entirely accurate. In his Senate testimony, Kerry did liken some American actions to Genghis Khan's. But he did not mention Elliott by name, nor did he mention his Navy superiors. And he did not claim that every soldier was a war criminal. Rather, he cited atrocities described by veterans who opposed the war. Kerry has acknowledged that, at times, he used a poor choice of words as a young man protesting the war, but he has continued to insist that atrocities were committed. During the war, Elliott gave Kerry high marks in fitness reports and recommended Kerry for the Silver Star and the Bronze Star. "John was one of 50 young officers who performed extremely well," Elliott said in an interview in May "I wrote his fitness report, and I stand by that." But in his affidavit, Elliott backed away from the Silver Star nomination he wrote for Kerry in 1969. Kerry won the award for chasing down and killing a wounded Viet Cong guerrilla who had confronted his boat with a grenade launcher. In his affidavit, Elliott questioned Kerry's actions, suggesting he might have shot the guerrilla in the back. Elliott was not present during the action, and there have been no credible eyewitness accounts affirming his version. Kerry's Swift boat mates have long insisted that Kerry's action was appropriate and saved their lives. A day after the ad appeared, Elliott said in an interview with the Boston Globe that he regretted signing the affidavit and that he believed Kerry still deserved the Silver Star. Then he issued a second affidavit standing by his first sworn statement, saying he had been misquoted by the Globe. But in his second affidavit, Elliott also admitted, "I do not claim to have personal knowledge as to how Kerry shot the wounded, fleeing Viet Cong." There are three other allegations raised by the anti-Kerry group -- questioning his first Purple Heart, his Bronze Star and a Christmas Eve mission to the Cambodian border. The awarding of Kerry's first Purple Heart has been challenged by a former surgeon at the Navy base at Cam Ranh ... |
| freerepublic.com -> www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/browse Republic Log In | Register News/Activism Latest | Search | Topics | Home | Help News/Activism Threads Threads | Messages Search (by title: enter all relevant words or partial title) Search Austrians Praise Schwarzenegger in US Posted by Ernest_at_the_Beach On 05/13/2004 9:28:13 PM PDT with 1 comment The Las Vegas Sun ^ | May 13, 2004 at 11:56:36 PDT | GEORGE JAHN GRAZ, Austria (AP) - America, nein. Arnie, ja! When Austrians vent about the United States, the key word nowadays is "no" to things American, with only a few exceptions - including praise of Arnold Schwarzenegger. Arnie, that country has a real problem," says Robert Biber, echoing sentiments across Austria roused by images of US soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners. Outrage as KISS player mouths off on Muslims Posted by veronica On 05/13/2004 9:25:48 PM PDT with 3 comments Sydney Morning Herald ^ | May 14, 2004 KISS bass player Gene Simmons has caused an uproar among Australia's Muslim community by launching an attack on Islamic culture while in Melbourne. The lizard-tongued rock god who is touring Australia with the world's most enduring glam rock band launched an attack on Muslim extremists during an interview on Melbourne's 3AW radio - including comments which were labelled inaccurate. Cold Turkey Posted by Rennes Templar On 05/13/2004 9:23:01 PM PDT In These Times ^ | May 10, 2004 | Kurt Vonnegut Many years ago, I was so innocent I still considered it possible that we could become the humane and reasonable America so many members of my generation used to dream of. We dreamed of such an America during the Great Depression, when there were no jobs. And then we fought and often died for that dream during the Second World War, when there was no peace. But I know now that there is not a chance in hell of Americas becoming humane and reasonable. Because power corrupts us, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. May, 2004 10amET | Fintan Dunne The family firm of beheaded American Nick Berg, was named by a conservative website in a list of 'enemies' of the Iraq occupation. That could explain his arrest by Iraqi police --a detention which fatally delayed his planned return from Iraq and may have led directly to his death. Nick Berg, 26 disappeared into incommunicado detention after his arrest by Iraqi police in March, 2004. He vanished again after his release 13 days later. Science & Space ^ | Thursday, May 13, 2004 Posted: 10:13 PM EDT (0213 GMT) | From Dave Santucci, CNN Firm is competing for the $10 million X Prize Aircraft designer Burt Rutan and his firm Scaled Composites took a giant leap early Thursday toward becoming the first private company to send a person into space. Scaled Composites, funded by Microsoft co-founder and billionaire Paul Allen, set a new civilian altitude record of 40 miles in a craft called SpaceShipOne during a test flight above California's Mojave Desert. Turning Shame Into Outrage Posted by neverdem On 05/13/2004 9:18:08 PM PDT with 1 comment LA Times ^ | May 13, 2004 | Charles Paul Freund Charles Paul Freund is a senior editor at Reason magazine. It's a tough call whether Abu Musab al-Zarqawi the Jordanian militant who is reportedly responsible for the videotaped butchery of Nicholas Berg is more stupid than he is brutal, or whether he is a bigger monster than he is a fool. Zarqawi's own nauseating videotape makes the case for his indescribable brutality and may have inadvertently delivered his enemy from its own demoralization. Official Says War Budget to Exceed $50B Posted by Ernest_at_the_Beach On 05/13/2004 9:14:08 PM PDT with 3 comments Yahoo via AP ^ | Thu May 13, 6:29 PM ET | ALAN FRAM, Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON - Wars in Iraq (news - web sites) and Afghanistan (news - web sites) will cost more than $50 billion next year, a top Defense Department official told Congress Thursday in the Bush administration's clearest description yet of the conflicts' price tags. Berg's Father Demands Answers From Bush (Free Republic mentioned) Posted by kristinn On 05/13/2004 9:13:32 PM PDT with 25 comments Duluth News Tribune ^ | Thursday, May 13, 2004 | Nicole Weisensee Egan Posted on Thu, May 13, 2004 Berg's father demands answers from Bush BY NICOLE WEISENSEE EGAN Knight Ridder Newspapers PHILADELPHIA - (KRT) - The day he buried his son, Nick Berg's father angrily lashed out at President Bush - and said he had a question for him: "I would like to ask him if it's true that al-Qaeda offered to trade my son's life for another person," Michael Berg told a small group of reporters early Thursday morning outside his West Chester home. One Last Card to Play Posted by Russian Sage On 05/13/2004 9:10:54 PM PDT Claremont Review of Books ^ | Posted March 18, 2004 | By Peter W Schramm One Last Card to Play A review of Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation: The End of Slavery in America, by Allen C Guelzo. Since 1865, the new york state library has been the proud owner of the original Preliminary Emancipation Proclamation. Media Maelstrom Posted by hope On 05/13/2004 9:06:15 PM PDT with 3 comments News Max ^ | 5-11-04 | John L Perry Media MaelstromJohn L PerryTuesday, May 11, 2004 This presidential election is in peril of being swallowed in a perfect media storm, more terrifying than Edgar Allen Poes A Descent Into the Maelstrom. With the inexorable force of the novelists oerpowering whirlpool that funnels nearly every object in its clutches down, down, down into certain doom, the perfect storm of television is sucking American democracy into oblivion. The way things are headed, television mass communications with print media puppy-trotting alongside its ankles are what will determine the outcome of the 2004 presidential election. Not the candidates. Bush Team to Rework Iraq Funding After Senate Balks Posted by Ernest_at_the_Beach On 05/13/2004 8:59:04 PM PDT with 7 comments Yahoo via AFP ^ | Thu May 13, 4:11 PM ET | Vicki Allen WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Bush administration officials said they would rework a plan for a $25 billion reserve fund for Iraq (news - web sites) operations after Republican and Democratic senators on Thursday deplored it as an effort to get "a blank check" without congressional oversight. STRATFOR: Geopolitical Diary: Friday, May 14, 2004 Posted by Axion On 05/13/2004 8:57:27 PM PDT STRATFOR ^ | May 14, 2004 0305 GMT Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Richard Myers went to Iraq on May 13. Three things are clear from this trip. First, the administration is committed to retaining Rumsfeld, or at least is committed to doing everything it can to salvage him. An open letter-- Berg dies while the Senate preens Posted by hatfieldmccoy On 05/13/2004 8:54:43 PM PDT with 16 comments vanity | 5-13-04 | hatfieldmccoy Senator Hagel, Senator Nelson, It has taken two days for me to have regained my composure to the point I could actually write you. You see, I've seen the unedited video of the Berg (an American) murder. Yes I watched the horrors of 9-11. I saw the Pearl (an American) murder video and the burning and gleeful dismemberment of the four security personnel (Americans). But the Berg video was staring straight into Hell. These things took their time. They used a dull knife and took 30 seconds to saw off this man's head. AM ET LONDON, May 13 (Reuters) - Britain's Daily Telegraph newspaper suspended the weekly column of Barbara Amiel-Black after its parent, Hollinger International, filed a lawsuit accusing her and her husband Conrad Black of looting the company. Martin Newland, the editor of Britain's top-selling broadsheet, "has decided to suspend the column until legal proceedings are completed," the paper said in a statement on Thursday. What Led Nick Berg to Iraq? Posted by dyno35 On 05/13/2004 8:48:10 PM PDT with 20 comments The Philadelphia Daily News ^ | May 13, 2004 | By William Bunch BERG'S JOURNEY SPARKED FBI PROBE AND OTHER STRANGE DETAILS HE WAS not like anyone else his friends from West Chester had ever known - an adventurous dreamer, a driven idealist, part philosopher and part inventor who was bored with college Record 26m divorce win 'a pyrrhic victory' (More Saudi kidnapping) Posted by Lan... |