8/12    JANUARY -- NOT CHRISTMAS -- KERRY IN CAMBODIA
        http://drudgereport.com/dnc93.htm
        \_ somewhat unrelated: was Jello Biafra's "Holiday in Cambodia"
           song somehow related to this?
           \_ unlikely.
              http://www.lyricsfreak.com/d/dead-kennedys/38157.html
        \_ OH NO HE'S TOTALLY UNFIT TO BE PRESIDENT
           \_ True, all sarcasm aside.
           \_ You'd prefer a "thoughtful and sensitive war" against the
              terrorists, as Kerry has proposed?
              \_ Thoughtful is a good thing in the conduct of a war.
                 Sensitive to our allies & potential allies, also a good
                 thing.  Called "diplomacy".  Saved more lives and won more
                 conflicts throughout history than all guns & bombs
                 combined.  Remember your von Clausewitz?  War is an extension
                 of politics by other means?  Think about it.  -John
                 \_ Diplomacy?  Please enumerate the number of lives saved and
                    which conflicts were won through diplomacy throughout
                    history.  Like how post-WWI and pre-WWII diplomacy
                    resulted in a lasting peace in our time with honor and
                    all that?
                    \_ cold "war".  Lives saved: 5 billion
              \_ Do you want me to post the quote from Bush saying the same
                 thing? --scotsman
                 \_ We've seen enough out of context quotes from you.  No.
                    \_ Actually, it wouldn't be out of context, and really,
                       would you rather see out of context quotes from me on
                       wall or from Cheney in stump speeches? --scotsman
                       \_ I prefer to not see any more out of context rants
                          from you or anyone else on wall or motd or
                          anywhere else, thanks.
                          \_ why do you read the motd at all? - danh
                             \_ Because he likes having a venue for tossing
                                out baseless accusations without any
                                consequence. Go reiffin! --scotsman
                                \_ The motd is pseudo anonymous.  Do you feel
                                   big now?  Has naming someone strengthened
                                   your point in any way?  If I cared about
                                   it that much, I wouldn't post.  Anyone who
                                   cares can dig through the archives of either
                                   the wall or motd for your previous quotes.
                                   I don't care that much and I doubt anyone
                                   else does either.
                             \_ Because sometimes there are interesting and
                                useful threads.  The rantings and out of
                                context quotes are neither interesting nor
                                useful but they don't ruin the rest of it.
                    \_ <DEAD>www.reagan.navy.mil/bush_speech.htm<DEAD>
                       "Precisely because America is powerful, we must be
                       sensitive about expressing our power and influence.
                       Our goal is to patiently build the momentum of freedom,
                       not create resentment for America itself." -GW Bush
                       <SARCASM>
                       Clearly from reading George W. Bush's entire quote he
                       means building coalitions of the willing who recognize
                       that showing weakness will only aid terror.  After
                       reading John Kerry's entire quote, when it comes to
                       differences between the Republican and Democratic
                       tickets on the Iraq war, Kerry's "more sensitive"
                       remark wraps it all up in a bow!
                       </SARCASM>
                       Why does it feel I'm writing Tom Tomorrow lines?
                       http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=17231
                       \_ Sarcasm?  That wasn't sarcasm.  That was you trying
                          to defend the undefendable Kerry again.  Tell us
                          again how Kerry is somehow different from GWB?  He
                          said only a few days ago that knowing what we know
                          now he would have invaded Iraq.  The only difference
                          is he would have sent ~2.5x as many troops and they
                          would have been more 'sensitive'.  And oh yeah, our
                          pseudo allies would have magically joined up and
                          freely given up the billions of dollars they were
                          making off Iraq just because John is a thoughtful,
                          nuanced and sensitive guy.  Riiiiight.
                          \_ who are you voting for?
                             \_ Nader.  Who'd you think?  I'll write him in
                                if I have to.
              \_ "I believe I can fight a more effective, more thoughtful,
                 more strategic, more proactive, more sensitive war on terror
                 that reaches out to other nations and brings them to our
                 side." -John Kerry
                 Cheney is being disingenuous, to say the least.  And then
                 here's his wife, Lynne Cheney:
                 "With all due respect to the senator, it just sounded so
                 foolish ... This is the kind of left-wing foolishness that
                 certainly isn't appropriate for someone who would seek to
                 be commander-in-chief."
                 \_ no. no. no.  you can't apply context to right wing
                    talking point sound bites.  now the thread will be
                    purged.
                    \_ The full quote says the same thing.  Sensitive to
                       whom, Iran?
                       \_ Sensitive to our allies (not alienating them), and
                          not pulling on Iraqis' genitalia while in our jails.
                          \_ Well if its not clear to you why Russia, France
                             and China acted they way they did you are
                             naive or stupid, maybe both.  Please name
                             an era in our's or anyone's history where a
                             "thoughtful and sensitive" foreign policy existed.
                             \_ Point 1:  Powell's UN presentation was
                                pathetic.  The "Intelligence Community's"
                                findings, which Powell presented, were clearly
                                not supported by the available intelligence,
                                as concluded by the 9/11 Commission.  Powell's
                                presentation was treated coldly, and for
                                good reason!  I strongly urge you to refrain
                                from labeling people naive or stupid
                                on this point, as it makes you look naive
                                and/or stupid.
                                Point 2:  "Thoughtful and sensitive" is
                                Cheney's, or perhaps your quote.  Don't
                                quote out of context, and even worse, DON'T
                                REARRANGE WORDS AND PUT DOUBLE QUOTES AROUND
                                THE REARRANGED PHRASE.  Continuing on, the
                                entire, unmodified statement means what I
                                said it meant:  sensitive to our allies
                                (not alienating them), and not damaging
                                our credibility by sexually abusing
                                those under our authority.
                                You should be very glad you are not signing
                                your name, since what you said would stick
                                with you in a lot of people's memories. -jctwu
                                \_ Please refer to the last five words of
                                   the first sentence for reaffirmation.
                                \_ Point this, point that, whatever.  Go back
                                   and read the full quote.  No matter how you
                                   want to arrange the words, they still mean
                                   the same thing.  Stop defending the
                                   undefendable and you'll be less stressed
                                   out.  Bush has fucked up a number of things
                                   and that's unfortunate and he's not the
                                   greatest President the country has had but
                                   he's doing ok and he's doing a hell of a
                                   lot better than a psycho like Gore or a
                                   man with no vision like Kerry would do.
                                   \_ You have several problems.  Your
                                      characterization ("stop defending the
                                      undefendable") is inaccurate.  You made
                                      a mistake with the quote and you know it.
                                      Finally, the last few posts by me
                                      indicate that I have read the whole quote,
                                      and it is clear to me it does not mean the
                                      same as your three-word phrase which Kerry
                                      never spoke, and in my opinion Cheney
                                      and you wish to mislead with.  I do
                                      approve of your not signing your
                                      name, and I say that without sarcasm.
                                      \_ This is now he-said, she-said.  There
                                         was no 'mistake' made with Kerry's
                                         quote.  He's a flip flopping weakling
                                         with no vision.  I think it's terribly
                                         funny that one anonymous person would
                                         insult another anonymous person for
                                         being anonymous.  I don't care at all
                                         either way usually but since you
                                         brought it up....  And I say that
                                         without sarcasm.  Hah!
                                         \_ Yup Kerry is a weakling like all
                                            the others who VOLUNTEERED to go
                                            to Vietnam.  Real men, like Bush,
                                            Cheney and Clinton made sure they
                                            didn't have to go serve there.
                                            And Bush doesn't have any
                                            "flip-flops", unless it's about
                                            gay marriage, or Department of
                                            Homeland Security, or nation
                                            building, or the assualt weapons
                                            ban, or steel tariffs, or tax
                                            credits for hybrid cars, or
                                            creation of the 9/11 commission ...
                                            Bush is guaranteed to stick to his
                                            ideologically driven positions
                                            unless reality forces him to change
                                            his position.
                                            \_ Heh, ok let's go with your line
                                               line.  Both men are either flip
                                               floppers or have nuance.  Which
                                               term do you prefer?  Since you
                                               won't accept Bush having any
                                               nuance and they both change
                                               positions, they must both be
                                               flip floppers.  Yet, wait, you
                                               say Kerry isn't a flip flopper.
                                               He has nuance.  I'm confused!
                                               hehe.
                                               \_ but only one has low IQ.
                                                  hehe.