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| 5/17 |
| 2004/8/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/911, Reference/Military] UID:32758 Activity:insanely high |
8/7 Anyone know this guy?
http://csua.org/u/8i4
\_ Hopefully no one will know this loser.
\_Loser or not, I think it's rather instructive on how
terrorism works. Terrorism would've never worked before
there was a popular press and technology has made
terrorism that much more effective as a propoganda tool.
Now anybody with a webcam can become a jihadist.
\_ it worked in spain quite recently.
\_ terrorism never worked? Terrorism has been around
for centries. check out the word "assassin" and find out
where is that word from.
\_ Using terror as a weapon works quite well. Genghis Khan and
his ilk noticed this a long time ago. Back in the old days
a lot of battle armor designs were meant to intimidate the
opponents. The Picts fought naked as an intimidation
measure, the Mongols made piles of human heads, etc. etc.
Modern 'terrorism' is a nasty and irrationally collectivist
version of the old warriorship idea that attacking the mind
is more effective than attacking the body. ('Irrationally
collectivist' because modern terrorists attack societies as
a whole, and that is counterproductive in settings other than
total war). -- ilyas
\_ it worked in spain quite recently.
\- well ignorning the first law of internet warfare,
"never get into an argument with someone in grad
school; they have more free time than you" ...
i dont see the relevance of most of your historical
examples. terrorism isnt just using psychological
intimidation techniques. i'd suggest it is a
combination of attacking civilian morale and
avoiding direct military confrontation. when the
roman army in 146 bc "salted the earth" at carthage
and sold off much of the population of corinth into
slavery, these flowed from direct military conflicts.
when a group avoid *direct* military conflict but
engages in indirect fighting, that is better
described as guerilla warfare than terrorism.
spain bombing: terrorism, clearly. i dont think
it's productive to call the viking raiders or
g. khan terrorists. they were more looters
and thugs. if an IRA "terrorist" assassinated a
british military person, that is probably guerilla
warfare. if he put a bomb in the london underground,
that is terrorism. if he shoots a bar owner in
belfast for serving british troops, that's murder.
--psb
\_ My thesis is 'terrorism is an old phenomenon.' It
still holds if we take your definition. It's as
old as fighting empires, where direct military
confrontation is infeasible. -- ilyas
confrontation is infeasible. Also, I think there
is a definite connection between 'terrorism' and
'looters and thugs.' Also, I am having a hard time
'looters and thugs.' Also, I am having a hard time
seeing the line you see between guerilla warfare
and terrorism, especially if the former targets
civilians (and it often does). Is terrorism just
'guerilla warfare with bombs?' -- ilyas
\- no, it has to do with target selection.
shoot/snipe and run [vietcong, american
revolutionaries etc] is guerella tactics
when aiming at military-related targets.
random/civilian targetting for a political
goal is closer to terrorism. i suppose there
has to be some element or organization and
some threashold goal ... i wouldnt call the
unabomber or the washington sniper pair
terrorists. maybe the weather underground,
but they were pretty stupid and incompetent.
\_ The Czars and their cossacks were very capable terrorists.
\_ As an aside, I heard a great story about one of Genghis Khan's
battle tactics. His army surrounded a city and said that if
the citizens delivered 10,000 cats to the army along with some
gold and other treasure, they would move on and not attack. The
citizens complied. Genghis Khan then had his army tie rags to
the tails of the cats, light them on fire and release the cats.
The cats fled back to their homes in the city and the entire
city started to burn. In the ensuing chaos, Khan's army easily
conquered the city.
\- there are lots of stories like this. see e.g.
~psb/MOTD/SultanTughlak. However if you think this
or the tzarist repression is terrorism, you misuse/
misunderstand the word. tyranny != terrorism. --psb
\_ KAAAAAAAAAAHN!!!
\_ Now that's psych-warfare. |
| 5/17 |
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| csua.org/u/8i4 -> story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=3&u=/nm/20040807/ts_nm/iraq_beheading_hoax_dc Slideshow: American Fakes Beheading Video The video, which appeared on a Web site used by Islamic militants, showed a man who identified himself as Benjamin Vanderford appealing to the United States to leave Iraq. The Web format was that used by al Qaeda ally Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and was introduced by a headline that said it showed Zarqawi killing an American. "If we don't (leave Iraq), everyone is gonna be killed in this way ... I have been offered for exchange for prisoners here in Iraq," the terrified-looking man said, rocking back and forth in his chair, his hands tied behind his back. The video showed a hand with a large knife apparently slicing through the neck of a limp body. The blood was dye, the setting was a friend's garage, the Koran reading was a tape and the knife was held by a friend. Mutilated bodies and sound effects were edited in from photos on Web sites and the video was purposefully blurred to make it seem even more amateur, Vanderford said. A major motivation for his action, an unrepentant Vanderford told Reuters, was to see how the world media would react and to see if they would be fooled. "It really illustrates the potential that this kind of thing would happen," he said. Vanderford, 22, said he worked at branch of Wells Fargo bank. A college drop-out, he was a candidate for the local city council earlier this year but had since dropped out of the race. His Web site also says he is a video game programmer and works with a local record label. INTERNET EXPERIMENT He said the video parody of actual beheadings of hostages in Iraq posted on Islamist Web sites was made and posted on the Web about three months ago, intended as an experiment into how quickly videos spread on the Internet. "It is unfortunate that it had to be the type of video that was offensive and shocking, but it was necessary to see how quickly this kind of thing would spread," he said. web sites) officials arrived at his door early on Saturday, but had no immediate comment as to whether he would face criminal charges. A police official said it was a matter for the city's special investigations unit. Vanderford said he distributed the staged video on Kazaa and other Internet peer-to-peer networks which are popular swapping forums for films, music and software. He said if his staged death appeared on any terror-related Web sites it was the work of others who found the video on the peer-to-peer networks. Scores of hostages from two dozen countries have been seized in the last four months. Most have been freed but at least 10 have been killed, and at least 20 are still being held in Iraq. Vanderford expressed the hope that his stunt would not affect his bank job. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. |