8/2     Very interesting article.  It is now clear that we deliberately
        went to Vietnam by provoking the North Vietnamese:
        http://tinyurl.com/4t7kk                        (NPR)
        Listen to the full analysis.
        This is a far cry from the "Communist aggression" we've portraited
        for generations.
        \_ Old news, nothing new to see here. If you were actually alive
           during the 'Nam war you would've realized this. Time you went
           back to 20th Century American History 101.
        \_ Just like we provoked them in '75, when they
           subsequently slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Cambodians
           and millions deserted on rafts.  You're a complete fool;
           a perfect Kerry voter.
           \_ Uhm, the Khmer Rouge/Vietnam war was at best a muddled affair.
              Don't know which was worse, Pol Pot killing 2 million or
              the Vietnamese coming in and slaughtering the Pol Pot regime.
              It's just a nasty business either way and just underscores
              how bad communism really was.
              \_ Pol Pot was a byproduct of France and the Communist
                 Vietnamese and Chinese
           a perfect Kerry voter.
        \_ Here's another newsflash, LBJ was a DEMOCRAT!  Oh my golly!
        \_ We thought it was Communism spread by the Soviet Union, but
           actually it was just a nationalist movement, which we would have
           not had a problem with.  Oops!
           \_ We would not have had a problem with, except that we were
              there in the first place backing up the French, who felt
              they needed to reassert their roles as colonialists after
              WWII.  If he had listened to Ho Chi Min and told France to
              stuff it's colonialism where the sun doesn't shine earlier,
              we could have saved everyone a lot of trouble.
              \_ Given that France has a tradition of anti-Americanism, why
                 on earth did we try to save its ass in indochine?
                 \_ Anti-Americanism?! The country that gave us the Statue
                    of Liberty and helped us defeat the British?
                    \_ Wrong France. Try again.  Read a history book.
                       \_ Which part are you disputing, idiot?
                          \_ Read a history book, you ignorant slut.  I
                             dispute your historical comments.  All of them.
                             Know wtf you're talking about before calling
                             someone an idiot.  Go check the dates for the
                             French Revolution.  Idiot, indeed.
                             \_ You dispute that France gave the Statue of
                                Liberty to the US? Which country was
                                France imitating with the revolution? Moron.
                 \_ We wanted them to join NATO.
                 \_ Live and learn.  Frenchies get pretty friendly when
                    they're getting their butt's kicked by Germans.
              \_ Actually 2/3 of Vietnam voted, yes voted, in an
                 election to remain aligned with France.  This was an
                 unsatisfactory result for Ho Chi Min hence the civil
                 war.  What he could not obtain by election was taken
                 by force.
                 \_ That's a new one to me.  Link?
           \_ It was not 'nationalist' movement.  Ho Chi Min and the
              other cadre were laways tried and true Communists, even
              during WWII.  The common foot soldier may have thought
              he was fighting for freedom, but as soon as the war
              was over he found out otherwise (as is always the case
              with these Communist insurrections).  Of course anyone
              who then caused trouble was summarily shot.
              \_ "Want to do what I say, and you're free to do what you
                 want."
              \_ While they were communists, my contention is that it was
                 nationalism that is what actually mattered.  They were not
                 toadies of the Soviet Union.