7/28 Since the convention began, so far I haven't seen Kerry tough or
decisive, as much as Bill, Al, Barack, or Teresa like to say so.
Every time they bring up his wartime duty, I think of his coming
back a brooding Vietnam vet, today past his prime, somewhat
flabbergasted he managed the Democratic nomination. With Dubya as
his (arguably) pathetic adversary, he has yet to demonstrate
toughness or decisiveness to me. -a liberal
\_ Conservative point of view: I was soooo glad Dean lost the race.
Kerry is one of the only people on the planet Bush could have
beat. You guys went with the boring old guard nothing guy and
now you're stuck trying to fluff his ancient Vietnam record into
a Presidency. With 19 years in the Senate, how come his short
time in Vietnam is the only thing we ever hear about? Because
he didn't do jack for 19 years in the Senate. Can someone name
a major piece of legislation with his name on it or the really
bad piece of legislation he lead the fight to burying? Kerry
is a nobody. All the talk from the left is anti-Bush, not
pro-Kerry because Kerry has nothing going for him. Dean worried
me because he had brains, passion, and balls. If you had kept
Dean and he learned to tone it down slightly you'd probably get
8 years. Now you only get another shot at it in '08 with that
silly woman of all people.
\_ It's too bad the MOTD is anonymous, since this is almost
certainly the same guy who was saying Dean is unelectable back
in January. -tom
\_ *sigh* I agree with your analysis completely. -another liberal
\_ Well, I supported Dean but I'm not convinced about the win/lose
situation. Dean was a wildcard, with his grassroots funding and
anti-Washington talk he could energize lots of people. But seeing
Dean get destroyed by the concerted attacks in the primaries it's
reasonable to think that Kerry would be safer. After all, they
take for granted that the "energized" voters will transfer to
Kerry anyway (a somewhat dangerous assumption... by November the
generic Bush-bashing angle may get old and then you're left with
a guy who like Gore doesn't seem different enough). Dean would
have been a wildcard since his talk about repealing tax cuts and
the antiwar stuff was easy to attack in soundbites, and required
multiple-sentence explanations that only satisfy intellectuals.
The dem party is not comfortable with a clear antiwar message.
They're mostly avoiding the topic now. Things are pretty much
as people predicted before the primaries. -moderate
\_ The 'safe' choice is usually a bad choice in politics. It
really means useless boring autocrat like Kerry who can
only get elected if his weak opposition royally fucks up
their own campaign. The left had a few other decent choices
as well but for some reason beyond me chose this useless
knucklehead. He's going to get his head handed to him. This
is going to be sad. Dean didn't just energize the party
base. Those people mostly always vote anyway. He was able
to touch the common man. The only common man Kerry has ever
interacted with was serving his lunch. --conservative
\_ what other choices? i mean, I think Kucinich was a good
candidate for what he is, but he's too left for even Dems.
Clark and Edwards, who knows. Edwards feels generic to me.
Clark was... mysterious and didn't deliver a message.
Anyway Kerry is better than Gore. It won't be a landslide.
\_ He hasn't been at the convention all week, jackass.
\_ You know, you're right. Regardless, I still feel the same
way ... moron. -op
\_ Not that it will really matter in the popularity contest that
will decide the outcome, but he's actually got a sage and
decent voting record in the Senate. I respect him for that,
and hope that the goofily handsome veteran/antiwar activisit
photos will get him into office so he can do the right thing
there.
\_ To put it another way, Kerry may have brains, but does he
\_ yeah, landed on the aircraft carrier in Jumpsuite helps.
That scene on TV is a much credible yardstick to judge a
person than decades of voting record.
have guts? Bush may not surpass Kerry on brains, but he appears
to have guts (roll eyes). -op
\_ yeah, landed on the aircraft carrier in Jumpsuite helps.
That scene on TV is a much credible yardstick to judge a
person than decades of voting record.
\_ I'd only modify your comments to change "guts" to "balls".
Going into a poorly justified war that has "ulterior motive"
written all over it isn't so much brave as brazen.
\_ Nah, I think Bush really thought Saddam had WMDs, and
\_ that is what you think. it is more like he think
Saddam is a bad person and wanted to settle the old
score. We all know he had WMD. He *USED* against
Iranian with our blessing.
even if he didn't, it was a good idea to take him out now,
since he had used WMDs in the past and could give them
to al Qaeda at some point -- the consequences of that
too dire (hence, why Bush keeps saying "it was the
right decision", after all). -op
\_ that is what you think. it is more like he think
Saddam is a bad person and wanted to settle the old
score. We all know he had WMD. He *USED* against
Iranian with our blessing.
\_ Bush thinks all his decisions are the right decisions.
That's one of the benefits of having no connection with
reality.
\_ duh, everyone always thinks their decisions are the
right ones. you got into berkeley?
\_ And of course, when it's the wrong decision it's
*always* somebody else's fault. I mean, geez,
accountability is a hard word to spell.
\_ so how many Vietcongs has Kerry killed?
\_ 1 unarmed surrendering vietcong, 60+ unarmed women & children
\_ Lying sack of shit. One armed with an RPG who had just
pointed it at his boat. Why do you GOP trolls lie
constantly about things easily disproven?
\_ Dude, I'm pretty sure that was what we refer to as a
"joke." Look it up in the dictionary. Learn the
meaning any maybe you won't come off as such a jerk.
\_ Yeah! That bastard! It was way more than 1 surrendering
and 60 women and children. After all, he told congress
he committed atrocities on a grand scale, the same as any
American in Vietnam. It *had* to be more than 61 innocent
murders. Give the man his full credit for being the
butcher he is. I mean strong leader with nuance and the
correct amount of French left liberal east cost elitism.
\_ yeah but the 60 unarmed women were most likely supplying
the VC military, so... GO KERRY!
\_ this is true , sadly, he was runner-scumming in a speed
boat shooting blindly into villages
\_ This is a contentless thread. You are basing a discussion on the
pop culture soundbite images of these people. Idiotic.
\_ What is the purpose of the the Democratic National Convention
this year, other than to make people believe/vote for Kerry?
The thread is to show one person's reaction. -op
\_ I just hope it makes people stop saying "i don't think
he's got any plan". If you wanted to see his plan, you
could read his website or go to hear him speak, but that's
too much trouble for the huge majority of people. We're
media driven so these conventions are still necessary.
--scotsman
\_ To put it another way, it wouldn't hurt if Kerry were
more charismatic, and I use that term in its purest sense.
-op
\_ no one gives a shit what you think.
\_ or you either. carry on.
\_ Until he announced Edwards as running mate, you would
have no way of knowing whether he's charismatic or not
because you'd never get more than a 10 second sound
byte. I urge you not to get stuck with single source
media. If you really want to get a sense for a
candidate, watch them on the floor on cspan. Watch
their speeches in their entirety. If you haven't done
anything like that, don't make up your mind on things
like that -scotsman
\_ Until he announced Edwards? WTF does that have to
do with anything? Everyone has been calling him
Lurch for a year and not because of the physical
resemblance.
\_ To put it another way, it wouldn't hurt if Kerry
could make a speech to Americans as well as he
gives a Senate speech. -op
\_ Like I said, go to a rally if you really want
to know. Or at the very least wait until you've
seen his speech tomorrow. The words you're
choosing here parrot what I've heard all over
the media. If you haven't made the effort to
look, don't make up your mind. --scotsman
\_ I didn't but a friend who is very anti-GWB
went to Kerry's appearance locally and walked
out early. You decide.
\_ I've read all the newspapers, seen all the
news, still hold out hope that the media
opinion doesn't end up as fact, and hope he
doesn't flub it Thursday night. Anyway,
even though I got off topic, my main point
was that, between all the Democrats spouting
the party line of Kerry as "decisive and
tough", and the mass media labeling him as
an intellectual, and from all I've read and
seen, I tend to stay with the latter. -op
\_ There isn't enough red, white, and blue crap at this dem
convention. I don't see enough American flags. They must
indeed hate America. Seriously, Teresa Heinz-Kerry, did
you watch her? I have the feeling she might personally
kill the election for Kerry. Does she think Americans can
identify with that weirdo feminist-environmentalist
hippie talk?
\_ Worked for the people cheering her on. Ask a woman.
Ask 20. As for the environment, a large majority of
the population of this country count the environment
as a major concern.
\_ I went to the Central Valley one time and saw this
beat up truck with a bumper sticker that says
"fuck the environment, give me a job." I believe
an even larger number of population cares about
economy than the stupid environment.
\_ You might believe that, but polls show that
you are wrong.
\_ What polls?
\_ And economy versus environment is a glaring
false dichotomy.
\_ Well so do I but watching her speak was painful.
Talk about lacking charisma. She was dour, rather
boring, and took too long to get to the point.
She also had an almost accusative tone, like she
was criticizing all of America and not just Bush.
And focussed a lot on America's duty to the world.
I can imagine some Berkeley hippies liking her
but the mainstream isn't going to be enthusiastic.
She reinforces negative popular perceptions.
\_ English as a 3rd or 4th language.. Besides, she's
not on the ballot.
\_ It isn't an ESL problem. She's a weirdo and
it shows.
\_ As his wife she is part of Kerry's image.
\_ Yes and as such I see her as very brave.
She's gonna take more shit than Hillary
ever had to.
\_ It isn't bravery when you're completely
apathetic. What does she have to be
afraid of anyway? She's worth $600m
of inherited money. She doesn't and
doesn't have to give a shit what
anyone thinks about her. It isn't
bravery in the face of adversity. There
is no adversity in her life.
\_ My dour, accusative, critical mom loved her;
she now thinks Hillary is too political.
\_ I have actually seen him speak in person and he is much more
charismatic in person than on TV. Having said that, I agree
with you in part, he is not a forceful personaliy, more of
a thoughtful and careful one. That is who I personally prefer
with his hand on the nuclear trigger anyway. He does not come
across as weak or soft in any way, more patrician or senatorial.
\_ is that why I can picture Kerry wearing a wreath and toga
and motioning for another beer? I'm not kidding! Can't you
picture this too?
\_ Wasn't he in Skull & Bones too? Makes me wonder, what their
parties looked like. "Bring me ano-thah bee-ah, pledge
Dub-yah." -John
\_ Yes, actually I can. And it made me laugh to think about it.
Thanks!
\_ Kerry is oh so boring. I want Howard Dean back. YEEEEEHAAAA!!!!!!! |
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