7/28 I don't get it. What's wrong with having a society that comes
together and decides that the poor and those in need should get
some assistance? I think people below are pushing individualism
too far such that it became like pure survival of the fittest.
Are humans like tigers. Don't we function more effectively in
cooperative groups?
\_ if i give $100 to this, beauracracy filters it down to $1
meaning people who want this want it cuz they can easily
steal it . by the time the money reaches the needy it's
dwindled to nothing
\_ cuz they're already taking half my income
\_ And yet you have an account on a machine at a *public*
university. Way to stand by your principles.
\_ Is UC funded by the fed?
\_ I'll immediately give up my csua account forever for a
0.001% drop in my taxes permanently. Or hell, any drop
at all.
\_ Some assistance == get back on their feet, not perpetual
handouts.
\_ and not cradle to grave government interference in
economic decisions.
\_ You're begging the question.
\_ Sure. You and your friends come together to decide to do whatever
charity you like. I might even join in, if the cause is right
and the plan sound. I only object when you pull out a gun
and tell me I have to join, or else.
\_ Ah, the old libertarian canard of "forced at gunpoint". If you
resist, nobody's going to point a gun at you. They might take
your stuff or put you in jail, but the only way they'll point a
gun at you is if you point one at them.
\_ They can't take your freedom (or your stuff) away without
violence or the threat of violence, duh.
\_ right.... why does IRS and the EPA each have SWAT teams
(thanks to WJC)? Tell that to Weaver, Koresh and Elian.
\_ Because the people most likely to defy a court order are
the same people who own guns and might be dumb enough to
shoot at government employees. And Elian? Come on! That
was plain and simple kidnapping. You don't bring a knife
to (what you think will be) a gunfight.
\_ They could have picked up Koresh anytime at all since
he was known to go shopping in town twice a week with
only 1 or 2 others at most. In a pickup truck, not a
tank like the Feds showed up with. Elian was not so
simple. If it was so simple there wouldn't have been
an issue. I think you're trolling because it the
whole point was that his family in Florida that his
mother was fleeing to wanted to keep him. His father
was out of his life since the parents split years
earlier when he was a tot.
\_ And the government never shoots first? Nor does it
ever threaten violence to harmless people? And if
you disobey a government edict, it's ok so long as it's
done non-violently? Can I have some of what you're
smoking?
\_ and how are they going to get me to go to jail? by asking
nicely? at some point, there is going to be an implicit or
explicit threat of violence.
\_ Many people being indicted are given a chance to turn
themselves in. If you don't have any respect for the
authority of the courts then what can they do but force
you to be arrested. You won't get a gun pointed at you if
you are civil, but if they think you're a violent wacko
it's only common sense they protect themselves by carring a
gun.
\_ So I should obey just because someone like you made a
law? Nuh uh, buddy! At some point I *will* get a gun
pointed at me if I refuse to acknowledge your law no
matter how unjust. You can't deny that.
\_ What if I lock the door to my house? Will they knock
the door down? What if I refuse to go by grabbing onto
a table, or a couch, or anything? Will there be violence
done to my body then? The government can enforce its
\_ Are you that radical that you can't see the need
to respect the authority of the courts? If the
government can never use force, I can just come into
your house and shoot you myself.
\_ Ah. The implicit or explicit threat of force.
Thank you. BTW, some might even say that it
is the responsibility a free person to disobey
an unjust law.
\_ Funny, because the people who say that are
usually referring to altruistic motives, not
simply a desire to protect their stuff.
\_ There are few resopnsibilities as honorable
as the struggle against tyranny.
\_ OMFG the government is collecting taxes!
Those tyrants! Let's all live in an
anarchical collective and grow our own
food and die at 40 of cholera.
\_ Taxation is the power to destroy. If
you put the tax rate high enough you
will destroy someone's life. Maybe
you should find a history book and
read about all the tyrants who were
called that only because they levied
outrageously high taxes. Except a
peasant in dark ages England paid
lower taxes than I do now.
\_ A friend once refused to pay the
portion of his income tax that would
have gone into the defense budget. He
was soundly slapped by the IRS for
that, of course. The government
wants its money, even if you disagree
with how the money is spent.
\_ If you disagree, you vote them
out. Or you leave the country.
That's your recourse.
will because it's stronger and more violent than I can
ever be.
\_ Hitler told the jews, you must respect his
authority
\_ The trouble is that I often don't agree with how the "society"
spends its money to uplift the poor.
\_ Darwinsm was very popular until WW2, when Hitler used it as a tool
for his agenda. Afterwards, equal right/opportunity/weak-deservers-
more mentality was much more accepted. So, thanks Hitler.
\_ When you're ready to lower your GPA by a full point to help 5 others
bring theirs from 1.8 to 2.0 to save them from being kicked out of
school then we can discuss how far I'll allow you to reach into my
pockets. |
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