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| 5/25 |
| 2004/7/23-24 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:32446 Activity:insanely high |
7/23 I wonder which "domestic terror" group they could be talking about?
Have the Freepers formed their own militia?
http://csua.org/u/8am (yahoo news)
\_ yes.
\_ There have been domestic terrorists practically forever. Just off
the top of my head I can name, the KKK, 1900's anarchists, the SLA
and abortion clinic bombers. Domestic terrorists are
left or right wing fringe elements who believe violent means are
justified in persuit of their goal.
\_ Don't forget ELF and the various militias in the central north.
\_ I'm sure I've forgotten a dozen groups, but I'm just saying
there's all kinds of terrorists.
\_ Has the ELF actually injured/killed anyone?
\_ a.out
\_ You think Hummers don't feel pain?
\_ Idiot. Look up "tree spiking" and why it can kill.
\_ Fatass. Look up why yermom is so fat that she
could kill somone if she sat down on them. But
she hasn't yet, so we don't call her a murderer,
just a fat ugly skanky Hummer driving hobag.
\_ When my mom spikes a tree, I'll let you know. When
your idiotic 'heroes of the environment' stop
trying to kill people and destroy property, let
us know.
\_ "There is something slightly absurd about a
scenario in which those who want to destroy
a forest can accuse those of trying to perserve
it of property damage..." -Maines
\_ I was referring to the number of autos that
were burned or spray painted, not trees
spiked. Re: "ugly skanky Hummer driving
hobag".
\_ and what about all the pedestrians
killed by drivers of monster suv's
who can't see over the dash? what
about all the asthma deaths associated
with excessive driving in urban and
suburban areas? When one persons
actions lead to the death of another
and that death is preventable, i call
that violence.
\_ Sue GM, Ford, etc. RIDE BIKE! Yeah,
whatever. Troll, troll, troll. Not
even a good troll. Only ilyas
bothered to respond.
\_ You need to become familiar with a
legal concept of 'main cause.'
-- ilyas
\_ most tree spikers (YES I KNOW NOT 100 PERCENT BUT FUCKING
CLOSE) make the tree with paint to let everyone know
they spiked it.
\_ so only some loggers are likely to get injured or die and
those who don't check for paint?
\_ I would say a small number of loggers have a slight
chance of being injured if they are dumb enough not
to LOOK AT THE DAMN TREE THEY'RE CUTTING.
\_ Does that include the ones where they glued bark
over the hole, or painted the nail so it wouldn't
shine and is harder to see? How about they file
some lawsuits or vote or do something within the
legal bounds of society instead of forcing their
views on others through violence?
\_ Injured, yes. Dead? Not that I know of but only due to
luck. Their stunts could easily have killed someone.
\_ FWIW, Earth First! disavowed tree spiking and never took
responsibility for any of it officially. Their MO was
more blocking logging operations and camping out in
trees. That's not to say their extremist rhetoric
couldn't have inspired others to do such things.
\_ EF != ELF. Anyway, they're all shadowy .orgs with
no real official structure anyway. Killing people
is killing people and *someone* was spiking trees,
whichever terrorist .org they belonged to.
\_ Tree spiking has not hurt or killed anyone,
in spite of logging company propaganda. And I
agree with you, killing people is killing people,
but tree spiking never killed anyone. Blaming
EF for tree spiking is almost as dumb as blaming
Rush Limbaugh for the Oklahoma City bombing.
\_ Well, it hurt this guy:
http://www.peterherrick.com/content/treespiking5.htm
\_ That doesn't count! He's white!
\_ Okay, I take it back. One minor injury.
\_ You're an asshole: "This happened in
California in 1987, where the operator's
jaw was broken and several teeth were
knocked out".
\_ Yawn. Minor injury.
\_ *laugh* Now, I _know_ you're a
troll. Sub thread is now dead.
\_ So are all these guys seriously trying to claim that ELF is
the terrorist org that the FBI says is planning to kill journalists
at the Democratic convention? Somehow, I kind of doubt it...
\_ Earth Liberation Front. I have no idea which ELF you're talking
about and if the FBI says they're planning to kill anyone.
\_ You really think it is the Earth Liberation Front that is
going to go after the Democratic convention eh? You are
battier that I had even thought, I and I thought you were
pretty batty. Did you come up with that one on your own,
or do you have some kind of source for it?
\_ 1) the person you're replying to (me) didn't state anything
about ELF attacking the DNC convention except to say I
hadn't heard anything about what the other poster claimed
about the FBI. 2) learn to read. 3) given #1, there is
no need for #3. See #2. |
| 5/25 |
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| csua.org/u/8am -> story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040723/ts_nm/security_convention_dc_5 web sites) said on Friday it was investigating "unconfirmed information" of a possible attack on media vehicles during the Democratic National Convention, which begins on Monday in Boston. FBI inquiry into threats against Democratic Convention AFP - 34 minutes ago "The FBI has received unconfirmed information that a domestic group is planning to disrupt the Democratic National Convention by attacking media vehicles with explosives or incendiary devices," the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Boston field office said in a statement. The FBI said members of the Boston Joint Terrorism Task Force were investigating, and that it would provide more details if there is "any credible information." A spokeswoman for the Boston FBI told Reuters that the bureau had notified media organizations of the probe because they were potential targets. US officials have said security will be unprecedented for the DNC, the first major US political convention since the Sept. Organizers say some 15,000 media representatives are expected in Boston to cover the convention, where Sen. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. |
| www.peterherrick.com/content/treespiking5.htm next This also assumes that the Service workers can both find and remove the Spikes. However, the use of ceramic or other non-metal Spikes makes metal detectors obsolete, and Spiking the trees in advance, as much as a couple of years, gives the tree time to grow bark over the holes. Gluing bark on the hole also works, as does applying paint or dark marker on the nail head to reduce the shine. As far as preventing nail removal, cutting the head off the nail and driving the nail the rest of the way in is an effective option. This makes it hard to get the nail out, but doing this with Helix nails makes it practically impossible to remove the nail (Foreman, p 153). Other methods of confusing metal detectors could include driving lots of small nails at random and/or blasting steel buckshot at random into the forest. The detectors cannot tell the difference between the smaller steel objects and the real Spikes, and therefore would cause lots of wasted time trying to find the Spike (Haywood, p 37). All of these methods would make it nearly impossible to find and remove the nails once they are securely in place. If the Spikes are large enough, they can cause plenty of damage to the saw, whether in the field or in the mill. As a result, the companies will be reluctant to purchase the land in the first place, and this will save the trees. The single most important argument opposing Tree Spiking is that it is dangerous. The companies argue that Tree Spiking unnecessarily endangers the innocent people who work for the companies and have no control over what and where they cut. If a chainsaw hits a spike in a tree, some argue, it could, potentially, tear the chain and severely hurt -- if not kill -- the operator. If the nails are missed and the log makes it to the mill, then there can be serious danger from the band saw breaking and the shrapnel hurting the operator. This happened in California in 1987, where the operator's jaw was broken and several teeth were knocked out. Opponents to Tree Spiking say that this is a mild example of what could happen; the man could potentially have been hit with the same piece in the spine as he tried to get away, and could have been paralyzed or killed. Thus, the lumbering interests contend, Spikes pose a serious danger. The danger is, in fact, very minimal, and no one has ever been hurt solely as a result of a tree spiking incident. There has never been a case of injury or death from a chainsaw striking a Spike placed in a tree (Foreman, p 152). In fact, a man who worked as a logger for many years in Colorado, says "that in numerous incidents of striking metal objects with his saw - including one time when the impact was great enough to cause him to swallow his chaw of tobacco - he never once had a broken chain or was otherwise hurt" (Haywood, p 26). However, the possibility does exist, and for that reason, low Spikes should be avoided. Spikes should be placed higher, so they will show up at the mill, not in the field. The danger at the mill is lower, despite the single injury cited before, which was was only partially the result of a Tree Spiking. In 1987, in Cloverdale California, a band saw struck an eleven inch spike in a Redwood log. The impact shattered the blade, and a piece hit the saw operator, George Alexander, in the face, knocking out teeth and breaking his jaw (Foreman, p 149). This is the only case of a Spike in a tree causing any sort of injury (Foreman, p 152), but the circumstances are important as the incident was grossly misrepresented by the media. It was later discovered that the only suspect was "a conservative Republican in his mid-fifties who owned land adjacent to the sale" (Foreman, p 151). There is also evidence that the company (Louisiana-Pacific) knew that something might happen. For one, they had found dead animals left on their machinery as a protest and a warning. Still, they continued to saw the same wood, showing a blatant disrespect and lack of care for their workers. The next day, in fact, the saw struck a similar nail in another log from the same area (although no one was hurt). The biggest problem with using the Cloverdale incident as an example of the dangers of Tree Spiking is that the mill itself was unsafe to begin with: In a copyrighted interview with Alexander in the San Francisco Examiner, reporter Eric Brazil quoted the injured man as saying the band saw was cracked, wobbly, and due for replacement. Alexander said he had been complaining about the dangerous condition of the saw for two weeks. "If it had been a good saw, it would've handled the spike better," Alexander said. He further stated that he had almost not gone to work on the fateful day because of concerns about the saw. A band saw will normally be dulled or break as a result of a Tree Spike, but the fact that, in this one freak accident, the blade shattered, is not a consequence of the nail exclusively, but rather of the poor conditions and irresponsibility of the mill. no one has ever been hurt or killed exclusively as a result of a Tree Spike. Still, the best way to avoid this minute danger is not to cut the wood in the first place. For this reason, warning the company and the Service is essential to responsible Spiking. |