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| 2004/7/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:32277 Activity:high |
7/14 So I am curious how Conservatives feel about The House repeatedly
"bending the rules" to get things passed at the last minute:
http://blog.lewrockwell.com/lewrw/archives/005080.html
\_ Sounds shady to me (the actions of the house leaders, not the
reportage). Got any better references than Joe Q. Blogger? How do
Liberals feel about the mutation in the Senate of everything
requiring cloture?
\_ This was widely reported. You can do a search anywhere for it.
On the Medicare bill last year, they held the vote open for
almost 3 hours while they tried to convince people to change
their votes. This time it was only 20 minutes. As far as I've
read, this was unheard of before last year.
\_ Weren't the new cloture rules proposed by Frist and Z.Miller?
Why do you suggest this is a Liberal mutation?
\_ I'm not referring to rules, but rather the practice of the
dems to filibuster anything they don't like, which basically
means that to get anything done you need cloture rather than
simple majority.
\_ That's the senate, son.
\_ As opposed to the filibuster free repubs in the senate
under Clinton? Come on... That's what the senate is for.
\_ As opposed to the filibuster free repub senate under
Clinton? Come on... That's what the senate is for.
It's a necessary check on the majority. Democracy at
work.
\_ We could compare the numbers between the previous and
current admins for filibusters. The answer won't
come out in your favor. You're also twisting the
issue. It isn't a case of "filibuster free". It is
a case of now requiring 60 votes instead of the
Constitutionally mandated 50 because the Dems won't
let *anything* pass at 50 now. It's an abuse.
\_ okay, i'm curious. care to cite sources for numbers
and post the math and results somwhere?
\_ I think it is a shitty way to run a democracy. -op
\_ So I guess when the Republicans logjammed the congress in the
'90s, that was really bad too? Oh wait, Democrats BAD,
Republicans GOOD.
\_ Compare the numbers like I said above. There's a difference
between stalling a few bills here and there and doing it
for nearly everything.
\_ And the dems don't do it for nearly everything. Man have
you drunk the koolaid. They have done it for a few high
profile cases, jsut like the repubs did. |
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| blog.lewrockwell.com/lewrw/archives/005080.html Daniel previously commented on: Under section 215 of the PATRIOT Act, judges must automatically approve a request to search library records, thus the PATRIOT Act turns judges into rubber stamps instead of independent checks on federal law enforcement. Representatives Bernie Sanders, Ron Paul and others offered an amendment to the Commerce, Justice, and State Department Appropriations bill restoring the fourth amendment requirement that the government show probable cause and obtain a warrant from an independent judge before using taxpayer funds to search library and Internet records. The amendment was debated yesterday afternoon and at 3:41 Congress began was was supposed to be a 15-minute vote on the amendment. However, at the end of 15 minutes, the Sanders-Paul amendment was winning. So, instead of bringing down the gavel and ending the vote, leadership "kept the vote open" while it twisted arms to get Republicans to change their votes. Like they did during the Medicare votes, the GOP leadership ordered the C-SPAN cameras to remain fixed on a wide shot of the House, so the American people could not see the House leadership browbeat members to abandon the Fourth Amendment and their constituents' freedom "for the good of the party." While they could not see what was going on, the American people could hear Representative Sanders and Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi inquire as to whether 15 minutes had passed and if so why the vote was still being held open. The official explanation from the GOP leadership was the vote would remain open for as long as members where waiting to vote. When the Democrats said they did not see any member waiting to vote and asked who these mysterious members waiting to vote where, they received no answer. Finally, enough Republicans caved in that the leadership was able to get a tie vote, and since an amendment cannot pass on a tie, it was defeated. The leadership brought down the gavel on the 15-minute vote at 4:19 pm Postscript-- At least one member of the GOP House leadership has said they GOP has an "obligation" to push their agenda through the House, regardless of how many rules they have to "bend." Richard Cheney called Speaker Jim Wright an SOB for employing similar tactics in the eighties. once promised the American people Republicans would end practices like that used to kill the Sanders-Paul amendment (and ram the PATRIOT Act and Medicare bill into law) once the Republicans took control of the House. |