5/8     Adam Glass is the newest elite who believes that wallall should
        be deleted.  Do you think that it is acceptable for the elite to
        dictate what programs you may use?  wallall will be deleted on
        Monday after the Politburo meeting unless something is done.
        \_ no it won't, because adam's solution is extreme and everyone
           else agreed so, shannon.  but people ought to chill out and
           respect each other a bit while walling.  -george
         \what if i have no respect for someone outside wall-world --psb
         \_ That's censorship, which is to say restriction of
            a specific type of speech by those people who control
            the allocation of the resources for that speech.  Is
            that acceptable?
            \_ Um, actually, I don't think that's censorship.  If
        they control the resources, then they *control* *the*
        *resources*, and can do what they want.  Censorship
        is restriction of speech by someone who doesn't control
        the resource, like the government.  If you want soda
        to be un-managed, say so.
          \uh how do you censor if you dont have control? --psb
            \_ Yes.  There is no excuse for tolerating electronic
        harrassment in the name of free speech. -gwh
          \No, there is no reason for tolerating dumb speech
           in the name of george. When all you need to do is
           "electronically close you eyes" [wallall -n], its
           tough to make the case this is harassment.
           besides, wallall preserves ample records and witnesses
           if you want to make the case for harassment. --psb
        \_If you don't like elites making decisions, then we can throw
          this to the general membership.  Easy. -dpassage
         \_ RIght....the 20 or so people who attend CSUA general
            meetings aren't the elite, eh?
         \what do people think about re-writing the CSUA const
         to include a machine supervision cmte which will make
         policies for the machine(s) independent of the politburo,
         who will continue to run other csua activites. you could
         maybe have 1 person per 50 or 100 [or whatever] users ...
         this way this group will be reasonably representative of the
         membership ... the 5person ex-com certainly is not ...
         especially when they arbitrarily choose a bunch of their
         friends to help make policy at the exclusion of orthers.
          \_ you're just offended because you have no friends.
         and this group will presmable feel responsive to their
         "constituency" if they want to be re-relected.
         please send *me* input on this idea. --psb
         \_We could take the vote electronically. I'm working
           on a couple of ideas on how we could do this.-dpassage
           \-- You don't seem to understand.  You elected these
        bozos.  They can do whatever they want.  If they
        voted to turn off soda tonight and never turn it
        back on, they could do it.  A general meeting
        could overturn, but that's it.  [This actually
        sidesteps the issue that you DID NOT elect Adam
        Glass - because he is a friend of the politburo,
        he is CLEARLY getting preferential treatment.
        That is a problem for another day though].
        ^ Adam Glass, the CSUA's Hilary Clinton.
          What a concept.
           \_ More like our Stalin
        \_I don't see how Adam is getting special treatment.  He proposed
          a policy change.  I said we'd vote on it, and asked for public
          input.  Any other user is welcome to do the same.  And I'm not
          pretending that a Politburo meeting can be a general meeting;
          if opinion at the meeting is overwhelmingly one way (which it
          appears it is), then the status quo will remain.  If Adam wants
          to push it further, which is his right under our const., I'm
        \_ I am not at all convinced that free speech is more important
           than the cohesiveness of the Organization. -- Marco
         \-you're free to leave. i think free speech is more imp
           than your being a member.