Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 31198
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2024/11/26 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/26   

2004/7/7 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:31198 Activity:insanely high
7/7     For all those that still think we're bringing democracy to Iraq:
        http://csua.org/u/82s (yahoo news)
        \_ Patriot Act?
        \_ I've heard that being stupid is kind of like being drunk all
           the time.  Is that true for you too?
           \_ Ah, I love the smell of content-free ad hominem in the morning.
              \_ Just responding in kind.
                 \_ You didn't read the URL at all, did you?  Gotta love
                    the motd freepers.
        \_ Given the amount of unrest in the country, a period of curfews and
           martial law may be exactly what is needed to clean things up. Of
           \_ More like a fleet of C-130s loaded with Daisy Cutters... -John
           course, it wouldn't have worked if the US had tried it; it would
           have been seen as more American oppression, and the insurgents
           would have had a field day.  If done humanely, however, this could
           could go a long way toward a safe and secure Iraq. Big if, of
           course. - motd practicalist
           course. - motd pragmaticalist
           \_ It might work... But given Iraq's history, there's a good chance
              that these temporary measures could become permanent.  We shall
              see.
              \_ Yeah, that worries me, too. - motd practicalist
              \_ Yeah, that worries me, too. - motd pragmaticalist
                                ??? This edit is funny how? _/
              \_ Without a period of forced stability there is no chance for
                 long term voluntary stability.  Without a bigtime crackdown
                 on the bad guys how do you think the rest of the country can
                 just sort of magically recover and move on?  At any time the
                 car or bus you're in could blow up, you can get shot, kid-
                 napped, etc.  Safety is a prerequisite for long term freedom.
                 Freedom without safety is anarchy which Iraq has seen enough
                 of recently.
                 \_ Spoken like a true fascist. Should we station soldiers
                    on American street corners as well? People are getting
                    shot here, too you know.
                    \_ Red herring.  People get shot everywhere but not in
                       sufficient numbers nor blown up on buses, cars, and just
                       walking down the street that the other places could
                       fairly be described as anarchy.  I ask again, how do
                       you expect peaceful democracy to magically emerge from
                       a place in chaos without a period of martial law?  The
                       happy goodness feeling vibes coming from your sending
                       love notes to the wannabe warlords stomping around and
                       killing people?  Get real.  If I was a true fascist, I'd
                       have dumb people such as yourself shot.  I wouldn't try
                       to educate you.
                    \_ You know, you should read up on the post WWII Europe
                       situation.  For instance, material on the bloody revenge
                       against the 'nazi sympathizers' (which by some
                       definitions was half of the population) in liberated
                       France is an informative read.  The situation there is
                       interesting to compare to the situation in Iraq today.
                       Also, the word fascist is overused.  These days it has
                       the effect opposite of what you want.  -- ilyas
2024/11/26 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/26   

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2010/7/20-8/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53889 Activity:low
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Cache (7068 bytes)
csua.org/u/82s -> story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20040707/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_22
By DANICA KIRKA, Associated Press Writer BAGHDAD, Iraq - The Iraqi government issued a long-anticipated package of security laws Wednesday to help crush insurgents, including a provision allowing interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi to impose martial law. Special Coverage As the plan was announced, masked gunmen battled Iraqi forces in central Baghdad, and at least four people were killed. Mortars landed near a residence used by Allawi, and Iraqi police also defused a massive car bomb elsewhere in the capital. The new laws give Allawi the right to impose curfews, to conduct search operations and detain individuals with weapons, once he receives unanimous approval from the Presidential Council. They also give him the right to assign governors, including military leaders, in specific areas, and they empower him to freeze the assets of suspects and monitor their communications. Allawi signed the law earlier in the day, officials said. "The lives of the Iraqi people are in danger, they are in danger from evil forces, from gangs of terrorists," said Human Rights Minister Bakhityar Amin, who compared the new law to the US Patriot Act. The Presidential Council is made up of a president, who is a Sunni Arab, and two vice presidents -- a Kurd and a Shiite. Justice Minister Malik Dohan al-Hassan said the premier would need to get warrants from an Iraqi court for each step and said martial law could only be declared for 60 days or for the duration of the specific violence, whichever was shorter. "We realize this law might restrict some liberties, but there are a number of guarantees," al-Hassan said. "We have tried to guarantee justice and also to guarantee human rights." The law was needed to combat the insurgents who are "preventing government employees from attending their jobs, preventing foreign workers from entering the country to help rebuild Iraq and in general trying to derail general elections," he said. Insurgents waged a running gunbattle with Iraqi forces in the streets near Martyrs' Square, the Interior Ministry said. US soldiers joined the fighting against the insurgents, a witness said. Health Ministry official Saad al-Amili said four people were killed and 20 injured in the battle. US armored personnel carriers moved to the scene of the fighting on the deserted Haifa street as two Apache helicopters hovered overhead. Interior Ministry officials said the helicopters fired on nearby buildings. In another Baghdad neighborhood, four mortar rounds shook a neighborhood near the headquarters of Allawi's political party, wounding six people, an Interior Ministry official said. The attacks on a stretch of Zeitoun Street in central Baghdad also hit near a home used by Allawi, who was not there, the official said. The assault marked the second time Allawi's party, the Iraqi National Accord, was targeted. In the days before US officials handed over power to Allawi's interim government on June 28, insurgents overran the offices of the Iraq National Accord in Baqouba, an insurgent hotspot north of the capital, Baghdad. Iraqi police also defused a car loaded with 1,650 pounds of explosives Wednesday that was parked near the al-Iman mosque in the Karada neighborhood in downtown Baghdad, according to police Col. Later, another explosion shook the terminal at Baghdad International Airport. Amin said the new security law was needed to combat insurgents who are "preventing government employees from reporting for work, preventing foreign workers from entering the country to help rebuild Iraq and in general trying to derail general elections." Amin said the human rights and justice ministries would form a joint body to monitor all areas of the country where the emergency laws were declared and would investigate any allegations of human rights violations. A senior US military official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the law will not detract from the efforts of coalition forces. "We'll still be able to go out and do our mission," the official said. "There may be a requirement or need for increase of coordination with specific rules and specific measures that are going to be put in place by the Iraqi government." The US military has been handing over security responsibilities to Iraqi police and national guard forces, which are largely ill-equipped and ill-trained to handle such duties alone. Allawi and his government had delayed the announcement of the law on several occasions, suggesting some disagreement within the Cabinet over its provisions. On Saturday, Allawi's spokesman, Georges Sada, suggested guerrillas who fought the Americans before the sovereignty transfer could be eligible for amnesty because their actions were legitimate acts of resistance. However, the deputy prime minister for national security, Barham Saleh, said the Cabinet was discussing an amnesty offer and was deliberating how to give "people an opportunity to reintegrate within society" while at the same time "remaining firm against people who have committed atrocities and have committed crimes against the people of Iraq and against the coalition forces that have come to help us overcome tyranny." Amin also read out a list of foreign Arab fighters arrested in the country for taking part in the insurgency. They came from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, Yemen, Egypt, Palestinian territories, Morocco, Turkey, and Iran. He said one detainee, a Moroccan he identified as George Bin Baqi, was arrested at the Jordanian-Iraqi border with the son of Saddam's half brother, Mohammed Barazan al-Tikriti. 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He is believed to be behind a series of coordinated attacks on police and security forces that killed 100 people last month. His followers have also claimed responsibility for the beheading of American Nicholas Berg and South Korean Kim Sun-il. An armed vigilante group, calling itself "Salvation Movement," threatened Tuesday to kill al-Zarqawi for insurgency attacks that have killed Iraqis, the first internal threat against the Jordanian militant. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.