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| 5/23 |
| 2004/6/21 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:30938 Activity:very high |
6/21 Nader taps Camejo to be running mate:
http://csua.org/u/7ul (Reuters)
It will break my heart if Bush wins CA because of this.
\_ you and a lot of other people.
http://www.dontvoteralph.net/start.htm
http://www.fuckyouralphnader.com
\_ All of them hard core Democrats. Their opinions have no value
to Nader supporters. See my reply below.
\_ What about http://repentantnadervoter.com.
I used to be a Green and I voted Nader in 96 and 2000.
I left the party, joined the Democrats and gave Kerry
money because of Nader's bull headedness. This should
concern you.
\_ I also voted for Nader in 2000, and have also given several
hundred dollars first to Dean, and now to Kerry.
\_ We've been over this. Nader voters do not *owe* Kerry or the
Democrats their votes or support. We are in a different party.
We don't like your guy any more or less than we like the other
guy. If Nader wasn't running, most of us would stay home or vote
for a different second party candidate.
\_ I think it is your duty as a reasonable and moral human
being to get out of the house on election day and vote
for the candidate most likely to beat Bush.
\_ I'm sorry, did you miss the part where I don't care what you
do? I'm much more concerned with those people who actually
might think a Green vote would make a difference now.
\_ Exactly. If you can honestly say "Nader or nobody" then
the Dems, the GOP and me don't care a rat's ass about you. The
problem is, contrary to their rhetoric, a great deal of
Naderites *would* have otherwise have voted for Gore and are
getting ready to do the same thing *again*. They are between
3 and 6%, depending on who you ask. -- ulysses
\_ Hey you guys, leave Nader alone. I am voting for him.
He is doing a lot of good for this country. Heh. -- ilyas
\_ Ilya, you know I respect you, but I'm having trouble
controlling the boot of death right now. --erikred
\_ We've been over this. If another guy runs who they like
better then they should vote for that guy. If the choice
was GWB or Stalin, you'd be voting for GWB but not because
you like Bush but because Stalin would be so much worse.
The same is true of the Nader voters. Some would vote for
Kerry if their candidate wasn't available but not because
they wanted to as a preference, only because they feel
the alternative is further from their own beliefs. I don't
see how voting for the lesser of evils is healthy for
Democracy. It is a good thing that Nader is there for us.
If Bush wins with Nader running, then Democracy wins, even
if that might have been the difference and Kerry loses.
I would happily vote for Bush over Stalin. I would vote
for Kerry over Bush *if* I bothered to show which I am
unlikely to do for Kerry. My preference is Nader and if
that means Bush wins and Kerry loses because Nader "stole"
votes from Kerry, then so be it. They weren't his in the
first place if they're going to someone else. I think some
of you are so blinded by your anti-Bush rhetoric that you
can't see or acknowledge that other people who share some
of your beliefs don't share all of them. We are the other
party in this country, not a third party. --Nader'04!
\_ No, democracy does not win in a scenario of 3 parties,
where 1 guy gets 40 percent and the other two get 30.
without runoff voting, you may very well have the
situation of most people disliking the choice. The way
our political system works, the place for building the
coalitions and hearing minor candidates is in the
party primaries. I would prefer runoff voting but this
is reality. In many ways the democrats and republicans
both suck, but they are what pan out from our political
process. Why can't the Greens win even a single congress
seat?
\_ If we had 3 parties that might be true. We have 1
party and are working hard to make a second. Vote
Nader in 04 for Democracy! And how exactly is it
that minor candidates are heard in primaries? The
primary system is for the Demopublicans. It is not
an official part of the Constitution. And why should
I want to hear about 'minor candidates' from the
major party anyway? I want to hear from the 'minor
party' which never happens to any degree because the
press won't report on them. Why won't the press
report on them? Because they don't get enough votes.
Why not? Because the people don't know enough about
them. Why is that? Because the press won't report
on them enough. Hmmm....
\_ Ah so the evil press is why not one single
congressional district can elect a green. Actually
in the primary both Kucinich and Dean offered
similar rhetoric to Nader. Both got a bit of
support but failed to win the primaries. They
got tons of coverage. They couldn't win over the
mainstream. I'd say that was a pretty fair war
of ideas. This country's policies ultimately
come from Congress and you can't just sweep in
at the top in some ultra-liberal coup.
\_ Barbara Lee qualifies as a pretty radical
member of Congress.
\_ a democrat... point?
\_ Healthy democracy also implies 'compromise.'
\_ But not endless capitulation. Compromise means both
sides give something up. If all Nader supporters
voted for Kerry what exactly would we get that we
wouldn't have gotten if Kerry won without us? Nada.
\_ Kerry is much more liberal than Gore.
\_ I'm sorry, but this "democracy works" arguement is so
fucked up. In short, i am hoping you live in California
instead of some other battleground state, as your vote
wouldn't of made a difference anyway. |
| 5/23 |
|
| csua.org/u/7ul -> www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=5475626 MORE By Rolando Garcia WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader selected Peter Camejo, a Green Party activist from California, as his vice presidential nominee on Monday. The pick comes just days before the Green Party will select its candidate for the White House at its national convention in Milwaukee, where Camejo said he will make the case for Nader, the party's presidential nominee four years ago. Although not actively seeking the Green nomination, Nader said he would accept it and the access to 22 state ballot lines the party selection brings with it. Nader took almost 3 million votes, or 27 percent, in 2000. Many Democrats say his strong showing in Florida swung that state, and the presidency, from their candidate Al Gore to Republican George W Bush and fear he could do the same this year to Sen. Nader praised Camejo, 64, for "putting his principles into practice" as the head of an investment firm that supports companies friendly to the environment and other liberal causes. Camejo ran as the Green Party candidate for governor of California in the special election won by Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger. Camejo appeared in the campaign's only nationally televised debate and won 3 percent of the vote. The son of Venezuelan immigrants and fluent in Spanish, Camejo said at the press conference announcing his selection he would lead the Nader campaign's outreach to Hispanics, a traditional Democratic constituency. The campaign's central issue, Camejo said, would be opposition to the war in Iraq, and criticized Bush and Kerry for having identical positions. Nader is currently conducting state-by-state petition drives to get on the ballot as an independent in as many states as possible. Nader has accepted the endorsement of the Reform Party, which is on the ballot line in seven states, and the Green Party endorsement could put him on more. His campaign turned in about 40,000 signatures on Monday to get on the Illinois ballot, more than the required 25,000. Petitions have also been completed in Texas and Arizona and are awaiting certification. To snag the Green nomination and its ballot lines, Nader will have to overcome sharp divisions in the party between factions who support Nader, those who support other contenders and those who support Kerry, Camejo said. One proposal being floated would have the national convention issue a dual endorsement of Nader and another candidate and allow the Green Party in each state decide which to put on the ballot. |
| www.dontvoteralph.net/start.htm For every progressive issue, Ralph Nader's 04 candidacy could cause a disaster: the re-election of George Bush. We'll urge every potential Nader voter, in every swing state, to vote for the Democratic ticket. nader & burns Progressives Speak Nader calls progressives who don't support his 2004 candidacy the "liberal intelligentsia." This group now includes Mother Jones, Jeff Cohen, Norman Solomon, and The Nation magazine - not to mention Michael Moore, Jim Hightower, and Noam Chomsky. Some of the best in deeply principled, reasoned opposition to Nader's 04 candidacy is below. An Open Letter to Ralph Nader," The Editors of The Nation, 1/29/04 Point/CounterPoint? We wrote a careful reply to the letter and recently asked that, in the spirit of openness, they post it as prominently as they posted the attack on the creators of our campaign. So here, in their entireties, we post both the Open Letter from Nader's site and our "Open Response." |
| www.fuckyouralphnader.com People have tried pleading with Ralph Nader not to run for president, and they have tried reasoning with Ralph Nader, and neither have had any effect. In effect, his message to the liberals and progressives in the US who want to get the worst president in US history out of the Whitehouse is just this: "fuck you!" Our goal is to fill the gap between the anti-Bush paraphernalia for sale all over the web and the touchy-feely "please don't run" message favored by many liberals by selling enough t-shirts that say "FUCK YOU RALPH NADER" or some similar message that Ralph actually gets the damn message. And for you die-hard Naderites out there, ask yourself this question: we already have one presidential candidate for 2004 who shows complete contempt for his closest allies when he needs them most--do we really need another? |
| repentantnadervoter.com This committe is not authorized by any candidate or party committee. |