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| 5/24 |
| 2004/6/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:30557 Activity:very high |
6/2 Fahrenheit 9/11 trailer out. http://www.michaelmoore.com -motd censor (bush #1 fan) \_ may be the most important film of this decade, opens 6/25 --darin \_ I'll make a point not to see it. Hes a flatulent slob. \_ yes. it is important to see the propaganda early so one can refute it at the water cooler, motd, etc, when the ignorant try to quote it as fact. i had to help a friend detox after bowling for columbine but she made it with some patient help. now she's an informed citizen who casts her votes on facts, not distorted half truths, faked interviews that never happened, and lines ripped out of context from multiple public speeches sewn back together to say something entirely different. \_ what did michael moore lie about? \_ links all over the motd and google. \_ Ya know, it's different in other parts of the country - sitting here in your comfortable Safe San Francisco Home; you can nitpick about various little things, but try living in Lumberton, Miss or Beldoc, SC. Ever seen a real lynching? My girlfriend has. Sometimes movies like this need to be made - to get at least one voice of dissent out. \_ ok thats nice and it has what to do with Moore's lies? \_ it's ok to lie if it's for a good cause? \_ Does the act of lying hurt anyone? \_ Someone's always hurt. The question is how many people are hurt and how many people are helped. \_ it's not really a lie, is it? just the difference between one interpretation of events versus another. \_ Bush lies all the time, but for *his* causes. \_ Does one man's lies excuse another's? \_ Link? \_ http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html \_ Man, this link is seriously short on Vague hints and shadowy references. http://www.mooreexposed.com http://bowlingfortruth.com \_ Useful, thanks --darin \_ In the interests of reading both sides, Moore rebuts: http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/index.php And Hardy re-rebuts: http://www.hardylaw.net/MoorereplyHeston.html \_ I'm no fan of Michael Moore and there must be better rebuttals. This guy is nit-picking. \_ His rebuttal also requires that you didn't read the transcript of Heston's speech, which Moore wisely includes. You can call someone a liar as much as you want, but for god's sake, at least TRY to back it up. \_ What are you talking about? He links to the speech too. I think Mike's rebuttal is pretty sad. He doesn't bother with the stronger points at all. Nor does he deal with the fact that taking people's statements out of context isn't honest. \_ Small nitpick: Hardy says there was no rally. Moore points to a transcript of Heston's speech at the rally. Wtf? Also, Hardy says that Moore took Heston's words out of context, but Moore's tran- script of Heston's speech has the words as Moore portrayed them in the movie, including phrases Hardy explicitly accuses Moore of leaving out. \_ First Nitpick: Read more carefully. Hardy says the annual "rally" was almost entirely canceled except the voters meeting that is required by state law. (Which is where the speech was given.) I'm not sure what you're saying on the second one. Moore's transcript of the speech posted on the website is NOT entirely in the movie, only about 4 sentances are. \_ Yawn. Make a website refuting the movie, then post the URL. Vague hints and shadowy references do not a credible review make. \_ oh my God! you're cluesles, this is old. columbine movie was whacked!! ahaha and now you think F 9/11 is not? sorry ass \_ OMG WTF! U = TEH GAY! \_ You're kidding, right? This has been covered to death. No one who can read and has a browser or ever touched a printed newspaper thinks Moore is honest. \_ Thanks to whoever posted the links above. That was much more helpful than this hyperbolic assurance. \_ The links above were already there when I posted that this is a done and dead "we all know he's a liar" issue. I've never posted a link proving the sky is blue but I'm sure we could both find one if it mattered. Michael Moore doesn't matter. \_ You sure are spending alot of time worrying about something that doesn't matter. \_ Clarification: I'm talking about F9/11, not Columbine. |
| 5/24 |
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| www.michaelmoore.com Fahrenheit 9/11 Opens Nationwide Friday, June 25th VIEW THE FAHRENHEIT 9/11 TRAILER enter michaelmoore.com |
| www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html Unfortunately, it is not a documentary, by the Academy's own definition. The injustice here is not so much to the viewer, as to the independent producers of real documentaries. These struggle in a field which receives but a fraction of the recognition and financing of the "entertainment industry." They are protected by Academy rules limiting the documentary competition to nonfiction. It makes its points by deceiving and by misleading the viewer. Moore leads the reader to draw inferences which he must have known were wrong. Indeed, even speeches shown on screen are heavily edited, so that sentences are assembled in the speaker's voice, but which were not sentences he uttered. Bowling uses deception as its primary tool of persuasion and effect. One need only consult Rule 12 of the rules for the Academy Award: a documentary is a non-fictional movie. No, the point is that Bowling is deliberately, seriously, and consistently deceptive. The first edition of the webpage had a section on falsification of the election ad regarding Willie Horton (the convict, not the baseball star). For those who weren't around back then -- Massachusetts had a "prison furlough" program where prisoners could be given short releases from the clink. Dukakis vetoed legislation which would have forbidden furlough to persons with "life without parole" sentences for murder, and authorities thereafter furloughed a number of murderers. Horton, in prison for a brutal stabbing murder, got a furlough, never returned, and then attacked a couple, assaulting both and raping the woman. His opponents in the presidential race took advantage of the veto. The ad as shown by Moore begins with a "revolving door" of justice, progresses to a picture of Willie Horton (who is black), and ends with dramatic subtitle: "Willie Horton released. splices together two different election ads, one run by the Bush campaign (featuring a revolving door, and not even mentioning Horton) and another run by an independent expenditure campaign (naming Horton, and showing footage from which it can be seen that he is black). At the end, the ad ala' Moore has the customary note that it was paid for by the Bush-Quayle campaign. Moore intones "whether you're a psychotic killer or running for president of the United States, the one thing you can always count on is white America's fear of the black man." There is nothing to reveal that most of the ad just seen (and all of it that was relevant to Moore's claim) was not the Bush-Quayle ad, which didn't even name Horton. Fact: Apparently unsatisfied with splicing the ads, Bowling's editors added a subtitle "Willie Horton released. Fact: Ben Fitz also noted that Bowling's editors didn't bother to research the events before doctoring the ads. I originally deleted this from the main webpage, because in the VHS version of Bowling Moore had the decency to remove the misleading footage. He did make one minor change, switching his edited-in caption to "Willie Horton released. Obviously Moore had been informed of the Spinsanity criticism. He responded by correcting his own typo, not by removing the edited in caption, nor by revealing that the ad being shown was not in fact a Bush-Quayle ad. A major theme in Bowling is that NRA is callous toward slayings. In order to make this theme fit the facts, however, Bowling repeatedly distorts the evidence. Bowling portrays this with the following sequence: Weeping children outside Columbine; Cut to Charlton Heston holding a musket and proclaiming "I have only five words for you: 'from my cold, dead, hands'"; Cut to billboard advertising the meeting, while Moore intones "Just ten days after the Columbine killings, despite the pleas of a community in mourning, Charlton Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally for the National Rifle Association;" "I have a message from the Mayor, Mr Wellington Webb, the Mayor of Denver. as one reviewer put it, "it seemed that Charlton Heston and others rushed to Littleton to hold rallies and demonstrations directly after the tragedy." Fact: The Denver event was not a demonstration relating to Columbine, but an annual meeting (see links below), whose place and date had been fixed years in advance. Fact: At Denver, the NRA cancelled all events (normally several days of committee meetings, sporting events, dinners, and rallies) save the annual members' voting meeting -- that could not be cancelled because the state law governing nonprofits required that it be held. No way to change location, since under NY law you have to give 10 days' advance notice of that to the members, there were upwards of 4,000,000 members -- and Columbine happened 11 days before the scheduled meeting. newspaper reported: In a letter to NRA members Wednesday, President Charlton Heston and the group's executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre, said all seminars, workshops, luncheons, exhibits by gun makers and other vendors, and festivities are canceled. Under its bylaws and New York state law, the NRA must hold an annual meeting. The NRA convention April 30-May 2 was expected to draw 22,000 members and give the city a $179 million economic boost. "But the tragedy in Littleton last Tuesday calls upon us to take steps, along with dozens of other planned public events, to modify our schedule to show our profound sympathy and respect for the families and communities in the Denver area in their time of great loss," Heston and LaPierre wrote. Fact: Heston's "cold dead hands" speech, which leads off Moore's depiction of the Denver meeting, was not given at Denver after Columbine. a year later in Charlotte, North Carolina, and was his gesture of gratitude upon his being given a handmade musket, at that annual meeting. Fact: When Bowling continues on to the speech which Heston did give in Denver, it carefully edits it to change its theme. Moore's fabrication here cannot be described by any polite term. Carrying it out required a LOT of editing to mislead the viewer, as I will show below. I transcribed Heston's speech as Moore has it, and compared it to a news agency's transcript, color coding the passages. CLICK HERE for the comparison, with links to the original transcript. Moore has actually taken audio of seven sentences, from five different parts of the speech, and a section given in a different speech entirely, and spliced them together. Each edit is cleverly covered by inserting a still or video footage for a few seconds. First, right after the weeping victims, Moore puts on Heston's "I have only five words for you . cold dead hands" statement, making it seem directed at them. As noted above, it's actually a thank-you speech given a year later in North Carolina. Moore then has an interlude -- a visual of a billboard and his narration. If he did that, you might ask why Heston in mid-speech changed from a purple tie and lavender shirt to a white shirt and red tie, and the background draperies went from maroon to blue. Moore's second edit (covered by splicing in a pan shot of the crowd) deletes Heston's announcement that NRA has in fact cancelled most of its meeting: "As you know, we've cancelled the festivities, the fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands. Moore then cuts to Heston noting that Denver's mayor asked NRA not to come, and shows Heston replying "I said to the Mayor: As Americans, we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. Actually, Moore put an edit right in the middle of the first sentence, and another at its end! Heston really said (with reference his own WWII vet status) "I said to the mayor, well, my reply to the mayor is, I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was 18 years old. Since then, I've run small errands for my country, from Nigeria to Vietnam. I know many of you here in this room could say the same thing." Moore cuts it after "I said to the Mayor" and attaches a sentence from the end of the next paragraph: "As Americans, we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land." He hides the deletion by cutting to footage of protestors and a photo of the Mayor before going back and showing... |
| www.mooreexposed.com boasts of wealth as proving his value -- "I'm a millionaire, I'm a multi-millionaire. He lives in a million-dollar apartment, and boasts of that as well. I live on the island of Manhattan, a three-mile-wide strip of land that is luxury home and corporate suite to America's elite..... I walk in the streets with them each day" (Michael Moore, Stupid White Men, p 51). He sends his child to a private school -- no sense associating with the working class -- and has some trouble associating with them himself. raged against everyone connected with the Roundhouse and complained that he was being paid a measly $750 a night. He supplements his meager income with speaking tours (No more $750 gigs; former associate of his rated him as " You would think that he's the ultimate common man. His major themes are his status as the spokesman of the working class, the vices and corruptions of the money-obsessed, and the evils of the United States. Many conservatives denounce him as a leftist, when in fact the serious left, the thinking left, generally finds him appalling. He is, in short, the latest in the modern breed of Limosine Leftists -- individuals who, while personally they share the values of 19th century robber barons, find it flattering to adopt a thin (and personally meaningless) veneer of leftism as a pose, in the same manner they pick a flattering hair style or gown. A consistent theme can be found throughout his work, and that is a theme of deception any time it is useful. Moore fixes upon a conclusion and, when the data do not exist, simply invents them. In producing his Oscar-winner, Moore altered history, misled his viewers, and edited the footage and audio in such a way as to reverse the meaning. In one case, he took a speech of a person he desired to target; the problem was that the speech was in fact conciliatory and mild. So he spliced in footage from another speech, cut out paragraphs, and spliced the beginning of one sentence to the ending of another. In another, when he wanted to criticize a political advertisement, but it wasn't as pointed as he wanted, he spliced together two different political ads, then added titling which was in neither. Stupid White Men Here we learn such shocking things as -- 200,000 Americans are dying of Mad Cow Disease and no one knows it; Bush secretly stole the election by having Florida bar convicted felons (which Moore maintains were great Gore supporters) from voting; interesting but dangerous cultural/emotional development? Second Amendment Documentary Not really on-theme -- but I'm working on my own documentary, an honest treatment of the Second Amendment and the American right to arms. For example, the fact that the 14th Amendment (perhaps the most important Amendment of them all -- without it, States would be free to violate any provision of the Federal bill of rights) arose directly out of post-1865 State attempts to disarm the returning black Union veterans. |
| bowlingfortruth.com This website is here as a recourse to expose the distortions and dishonesty in fictitious film director Michael Moore's Oscar winning documentary, Bowling For Columbine. The point of this website IS a lot of things, but here are some that it is not: It is not to reveal a 'bias' in Moore's work. It is not to make the case for guns - I've never owned a gun, never shot a gun, and probably never even held a real gun; It is not, in large part anyway, even to rebut Moore's beliefs. Rather, this site exists because Michael Moore is clever and glib and a very good film maker - but he uses his powers for evil. Michael Moore persuades his viewers by deceiving them, and this site exists for those who wish not to be fooled. You know how I feel about guns, you kinda-sorta know how Michael Moore feels about guns -- Get a fair and balanced perspective and then make up your own mind about guns. BRAINWASHED: Bowling for Columbine is a smash hit in Americas universities where unsuspecting students accept it as a factual documentary. Moore's own BFC website even contains a 'teachers guide' to help teachers use the movie in the classroom. |
| www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/index.php Email Us Michael Moore responds to the wacko attackos... How to Deal with the Lies and the Lying Liars When They Lie about "Bowling for Columbine" by Michael Moore One thing you get used to when you're in what's called "the public eye" is reading the humorous fiction that others like to write about you. For instance, I have read in quite respectable and trustworthy publications that a) I'm a college graduate (I'm not), b) I was a factory worker (I quit the first day), and c) I have two brothers (I have none). Newsweek wrote that I live in a penthouse on Central Park West (I live above a Baby Gap store, and not on any park), and the Internet Movie Database once listed me as the director of the Elvis movie, "Blue Hawaii" ( I was 6 at the time the film was made, but I was quite skilled in directing my sisters in building me a snowman). Lately, my favorite mistake is the one many reviewers made crediting the cartoon in "Bowling for Columbine" as being the work of the "South Park" creators. I wrote it and my buddy Harold Moss's animation studio drew it. I've enjoyed reading these inventions/mistakes about this "Michael Moore." I mean, who wouldn't want to fantasize about living in penthouses roughhousing with brothers you never had. But lately I've begun to see so many things about me or my work that aren't true. It's become so easy to spread these fictions through the internet (thanks mostly to lazy reporters or web junkies who do all their research by typing in "key words" and then just repeat the same mistakes). And so I wonder that if I don't correct the record, then all of the people who don't know better may just end up being filled with a bunch of stuff that isn't true. Of course, it would take a lot of my time to contact all these sites and media outlets to correct their errors and I think it's more important I spend my time on my next book or movie so I just let it ride. But is that fair to you, the reader, who has now been told something that isn't true? With the unexpected and overwhelming success of "Bowling for Columbine" and "Stupid White Men," the fiction that has been written or spoken about me and my work has reached a whole new level of storytelling. It's no longer about making some simple errors or calling me "Roger" Moore. It is now about organized groups going full blast trying to discredit me by knowingly making up lies and repeating them over and over in the hopes that people will believe them - and, then, stop listening to me. Fortunately, they are so wound up in their anger and hatred that they have ended up discrediting themselves. Look, I accept the fact that, if I go after the Thief-in-Chief - and more people buy my book than any other nonfiction book last year - then that is naturally going to send a few of his henchmen after me. I knew that before I got into this and I ain't whining about it now. I also realize that you just don't go after the NRA and its supporters and then not expect them to come back at you with both barrels (so to speak). These are not nice people and they don't play nice - that's how they got to be so powerful. But a few weeks ago, this lunatic crap hit the mainstream fan. CNN actually put some guy on a show saying that my film contains "so many falsehoods, one after the other, after the other, after the other." They introduced him as a "critic" and "research director" of the "Independence Institute." Except they failed to tell their viewers who he really was: a contributing editor of Gun Week Magazine. CNN saw no need to inform the viewers that their "expert"-- who has made a career out of opposing any form of gun control-has a vested interest in convincing the public that "Bowling for Columbine" is a horribly rotten movie. So, what do you do when the nutcases succeed in getting on CNN? How do you handle people who say the Holocaust never happened or that monkeys fly? If you give them any attention, all the nuts will come out of the woodwork. I saw another one of these lunatics, this time on MSNBC. The anchor on MSNBC never challenged him on his lies and never told the viewers who he really was - a right wing crazy who believes Bush is too liberal. He was once an advisor to Pat Buchanan's Presidential campaign, and was a direct-mail writer for Jesse Helms. Writing in opposition to Hate Crime bills in the conservative Washington Times (where he was a columnist from '83 to '89), Lofton explained: Take, for example, this business of so-called "anti-gay violence." This bill will be used to go after only those who commit crimes against people because they are homosexuals. But this is not the most pernicious form of "anti-gay violence." The most violent - indeed fatal 100 percent of the time - form of "anti-gay violence" has been committed not by so-called "homophobes" who bash homosexuals - but by male homosexuals and bisexuals against other male bisexuals and homosexuals. To date, tens of thousands of male bisexual and homosexual men are dead in our country because of AIDS, because they engaged in high-risk homosexual sex. Is this not "anti-gay violence" which numbers its victims far beyond anything any "homophobes" have done? Well, I figured I better deal with this because the nutters were now being turned into "respectable critics" by a media that either had an agenda or were just plain lazy. So, how crazy are the things they've said about "Bowling for Columbine?" Here are my favorites: "That scene where you got the gun in the bank was staged!" We built the "bank" as a set and then I hired actors to play the bank tellers and the manager and we got a toy gun from the prop department and then I wrote some really cool dialogue for me and them to say! I saw a real ad in a real newspaper in Michigan announcing a real promotion that this real bank had where they would give you a gun (as your up-front interest) for opening up a Certificate of Deposit account. They promoted this in publications all over the country - "More Bang for Your Buck!" There was news coverage of this bank giving away guns, long before I even shot the scene there. When you see me going in to the bank and walking out with my new gun in "Bowling for Columbine" - that is exactly as it happened. Nothing was done out of the ordinary other than to phone ahead and ask permission to let me bring a camera in to film me opening up my account. I walked into that bank in northern Michigan for the first time ever on that day in June 2001, and, with cameras rolling, gave the bank teller $1,000 - and opened up a 20-year CD account. ") - which I am filling out here for the first time - the bank manager faxed it to the bank's main office for them to do the background check. The bank is a licensed federal arms dealer and thus can have guns on the premises and do the instant background checks (the ATF's Federal Firearms database--which includes all federally approved gun dealers--lists North Country Bank with Federal Firearms License #4-38-153-01-5C-39922). I have decided the best thing to do with this gun is to melt it down into a bust of John Ashcroft and auction it off on E-Bay (more details on that later). All the proceeds will go to The Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence to fight all these lying gun nuts who have attacked my film and make it possible on a daily basis for America's gun epidemic to rage on. Here's another whopper I've had to listen to from the pro-gun groups: "The Lockheed factory in Littleton, Colorado, has nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction!" That big honkin' rocket sitting behind the Lockheed spokesman in "Bowling for Columbine"-- the one with "US AIRFORCE" written on it in BIG ASS letters - well, I admit it, I snuck in and painted that on that Titan IV rocket when Lockheed wasn't looking! After all, those rockets were only being used for the Weather Channel! Lockheed Martin is the largest weapons-maker in the world. The Littleton facility has been manufacturing missiles, missile components, and other weapons systems for almost half a century. In the 50s, workers at the Littleton facility constructed the first Titan intercontinental ballistic missile, designed to unleash a nuclear warhead on the Soviet ... |
| www.hardylaw.net/MoorereplyHeston.html reply: "The Truth: Heston took his NRA show to Denver " Now, now, Mike. As pointed out on the main webpage, the NRA "show" was canceled. All that was held was the voting members' meeting, which was required by NY nonprofit corporation law. "From the end of my narration setting up Heston's speech in Denver, with my words, "a big pro-gun rally," Ah, Mike. Think we wouldn't notice that those words come after the first edit, where you plug in Heston's speech, not from Denver, but from North Carolina a year later? So your defense amounts to 'except for the segment that wasn't from Denver, my footage was from Denver." "every word out of Charlton Heston's mouth was uttered right there in Denver, just 10 days after the Columbine tragedy. But don't take my word read the transcript of his whole speech. Heston devotes the entire speech to challenging the Denver mayor and mocking the mayor's pleas that the NRA "don't come here." Far from deliberately editing the film to make Heston look worse, I chose to leave most of this out and not make Heston look as evil as he actually was." Sure, Mike, you took out "So, we have the same right as all other citizens to be here. To help shoulder the grief and share our sorrow and to offer our respectful, reassured voice to the national discourse that has erupted around this tragedy," because that made Heston sound too evil for your taste? That means that whatever our differences, we are respectful of one another and we stand united, especially in adversity" that appalled you? "Why are these gun nuts upset that their brave NRA leader's words are in my film? Except, when intercut with the words of a grieving father (whose son died at Columbine and happened to be speaking in a protest that same weekend Heston was at the convention center), suddenly Charlton Heston doesn't look so good does he? Especially to the people of Denver (and, the following year, to the people of Flint) who were still in shock over the tragedies when Heston showed up." Pity that Mike doesn't respond to my point that in Flint, Heston actually was attending an election event, ten months after the shooting, and unrelated to it. "As for the clip preceding the Denver speech, when Heston proclaims "from my cold dead hands," this appears as Heston is being introduced in narration." As I said, Moore deals in impressions rather than words. He has Heston speaking, then cuts away to a billboard (to let you forget that Heston's shirt and tie are changed in the next shot), telling you Heston came to Denver, then goes back to Heston speaking. I can find no record of Heston saying that prior to his being given the presentation rifle in North Carolina, a year after Columbine. Since then, he used the sentence (but not at "virtually every political appearance"), but never before then. |