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| 5/17 |
| 2004/6/2 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:30536 Activity:insanely high |
6/1 The Carter doctrine was such an unparalled success Kerry
wants to do it all over again:
Kerry's Plan: Ban U.S. Weapons to Stop WMD Threat
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/6/1/220814.shtml
\_ what a bunch of distorting crap. all bush can do is smear,
because he can't run on his record. hey, what's the worst
kerry could do, go to war based on the lies of an iranian
spy and blow $300bn, our credibility, our int'l goodwill,
and thousands of lives? yeah, that would suck. --aaron
\_ So aaron, how is that rabid liberalism working out at google?
Does google even hire conservatives?
\_ What Bush has accomplished towards limiting the proliferation
of WMD is phenomenal; the battle against militant Islam has been
relocated to the Middle East where our military can kill
all the jihadis. What is your policy for shifting foreign
policy from a Cold War paradigm? Oh that's
right you, like all the leftist appeasers, don't have one.
You rather pay lip service and kick the can down the road for
someone else to clean up.
\_ LIAR!
\_ Nonononono, that's "American credibility around the world has
been destroyed for generations!!!" And the official Iraqi $$$
is currently $120B give or take a few $B. Not that that's a
small number on its own but you're so far off from reality that
your credibility around the world has been destroyed for
generations! If you need to lie and make up numbers to make your
point, you don't have one. Get it next time, "American
credibility around the world has been destroyed for generations!"
Like Partha said on the wall, you must repeat it until it
becomes the new truth, just like in the old Soviet Russia.
\- just out of curiosity are you counting the $700m
funded by congress for afgansitan xferred to iraq?
also what fraction of the $25bn the administration
refused to separately earmark between afgansitan and
iraq are you counting? the troop levels are around
an order of mag higher in iraq. finally, i mentioned
that cheney and the other chieckenhawks should
continuously be referred to in that light. finally,
the whole idea of the importance of labelling issues
is inspired by frank luntz, the chief labeller of the
GoP. it seems only reasonable for the demos demos to
play the "abortion card" on their apathetic
constitutency. surely that is more valid than "if
we elected kerry, osama will end up in the lincoln
bdrm" --psb
\_ On money numbers since the rest is off topic and
uninteresting: I'll grant *all* your numbers. The
$300b is still off by more than a factor of 2 and
thus makes the whole message look like the made up
bullshit it is. Get the facts straight first and
then try to forcefeed your agenda.
\- while i try to be conservative with numbers
[i think it is fair to use $200bn, i usually
say "cost $100bn, 800 us combat deaths, 25k
us casualties, 10k iraqi deaths vs lies on
WMD"], does it really matter whether it is
$300bn or $200bn? i'm not defensing sloppy use
of statistics, but do you really change your
mind based on this number?--psb
\_ if you think Iraq is going to end up costing us less
than several trillion or you actually think we are
ever 'leaving' Iraq, you are deluded.
\_ maybe he is just projecting into the not
too distant future for a conservative
guestimate of the final total cost?
\_ Nah, they didn't destroy American credibility, just the
dumb and dumber Bush regime credibility. huh huh.
\_ yea 120 bn no biggie, just a small fraction of the 400 bn
budget deficit. huh huh.
\_ It's Beavis! -- beavis #1 fan
\- Butthead said "I am really cool Beavis, but I cannot
predict the future." Which makes Butthead smarter than
the NeoCons. --psb
\_ So I am curious what your point is here. Are you claiming
that American credibility has been enhanced?
\_ My point is that there is no such thing as 'credibility'.
In international affairs there is only power and will.
\_ I think he's trying to say "... destroyed for generations"
is an exaggeration.
\- point worth raising ... and that is why BUSH must
be voted out. if neither rumsfeld nor BUSH is axed
than that essentially gives them a "mandate" in the
eyes of the world. --psb
\_ Yes, and so what? Why does it matter what the
Europeans think? They have their goals, the US
has other goals. Sometimes those goals conflict
and their rabidly left press kicks us in the
teeth for it. This isn't Europe.
\- because if you are trying to get NATO to help
out in iraq it matters. --psb
\_ NATO? NATO isn't the world. NATO is an
alliance of EU/US military powers formed for
the sole purpose of holding back the
Soviets. I don't think NATO should even
exist. It's a Cold War relic along with the
rest of the trappings such as huge US bases
in Germany, etc. Close them down, end NATO.
Who else do we need to care about and why?
\- ok i will try to make this my last
commit: i suppose you are unaware that
bush is going to istanbul at the end
of the month for a nato summit where
nato involvement in iraq will be the
main topic? are you the same person/
idiot asking about europe? that question
i answered. if you want to talk about the
rest of the world, look at 6party talks
w.r.t. north korrea. --psb
\_ I'm aware. I think it's a mistake.
Just because Bush does it doesn't mean
I'm blindly in favor of it. Do you
blindly favor anything the opposition
party puts forth or does? The 6 party
talks have achieved nothing.
\_ Clearly he hasn't traveled abroad lately.
\_ Time will tell. I suspect you are right, but if
America continues on the imperialism and conquest
course laid out by the PNAC, he will have been right.
\_ http://www.bushflash.com/ma.html |
| 5/17 |
|
| www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/6/1/220814.shtml John Kerry said the key to US security is to unilaterally stop building nuclear weapons. Touted as the major national security speech of his campaign so far, the presumptive Democrat nominee said that as his first order of business as president he will abandon plans to build new nuclear weapons, including bunker-busting nuclear weapons advocated by the Bush administration. Kerry's statement for a unilateral US nuclear arms moratium also coincided with the UN inspection agency's announcement that Iran continues to procure material to make nuclear weapons. As president, I will stop this administration's program to develop a whole new generation of bunker-busting nuclear bombs, Kerry told a crowd of supporters in West Palm Beach, Fla. And it undermines our credibility in persuading other nations. What kind of message does it send when we're asking other countries not to develop nuclear weapons but developing new ones ourselves? But military experts say the new weapons are absolutely vital in the war on terror, as terrorist nations are building both command posts and nuclear weapons so deep underground the Pentagon does not have weapons to adequately strike these potential targets. In late May, the House passed legislation that provided $27 million for research into the proposed high-yield Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator, better known as the bunker buster. The bill offered funding for new weapons research centered at Lawrence Livermore and Sandia weapons labs in California and an additional $9 million for research into other new thermonuclear weapons. Though the US has dramatically reduced its nuclear arsenal since the end of the Cold War, America's example has not been followed by other nations. Russia, China and other rogue states have continued to maintain or develop new weapons of mass destruction, including thermonuclear devices. During his speech Kerry acknowledged that despite the fall of the Berlin Wall, ... Russia still has nearly 20,000 nuclear weapons and enough nuclear material to produce 50,000 more Hiroshima-sized bombs. The Russian nuclear arsenal is more than double the US nuclear stockpile. Kerry stated that one of the key elements of his plan is to end the nuclear weapons programs in states like North Korea and Iran. At the same time Kerry called for a ban on new US weapons, he offered little in specifics on how he would deal with North Korea and Iran if they failed to comply in stopping their WMD programs. Kerry blamed the Bush administration for being too fixated on Iraq while the nuclear dangers from North Korea have multiplied. Kerry also said, Let me say it plainly: A nuclear-armed Iran is unacceptable. He claimed that the Bush administration has given North Korea time to have made enough new fuel to make six to nine nuclear bombs. |