5/12    Suppose I have as much RAM as a computer and can memorize/count
        card. But what good is it if the casino uses 10+ decks and they can
        shuffle any time they want? Isn't card counting good only when you
        have very few decks?
        \_ Card counting gives you an advantage.  The size of that advantage is
           determined by how many decks are in play and how many cards have
           been dealt since the last shuffle.  The house has a built-in
           advantage.  If your counting advantage is less that the house
           advantage (because of #decks or shuffling) then don't play.
        \_ Casinos don't exist for you to apply your mad math skillz and get
           rich and famous like some MIT cheats from a few years ago.  They
           exist as a form of entertainment.  Some people actually do win
           money sometimes but (here's the Stat 2 part) because the house has
           a built in advantage you *will* lose money over the course of your
           life if you don't cheat.  The MIT crew were cheating.  Card
           counting alone will not help you tip the odds in your favor.
           \_ How were they cheating?  From what I heard of it, they had one
              player sit at a table playing small hands and when that player
              saw the count become favorable, they signaled for a whale player
              to come over.  When the count went south the whale left.  They
              were sneaky about it, but that's not illegal, just common sense.
              \_ I didn't say it was illegal.  The State determines what is
                 legal or not.  The casino determines what is cheating.  I
                 never used the word "illegal" to describe them.
           \_ I agree with the previous poster.  You need to show how the MIT
              crew were cheating.  Everything I've seen and read suggests that
              they were not cheating.
              \_ If the casino says it is cheating, it is.  They make the
                 rules.  Breaking rules = cheating.  It's very simple.
                 \_ So if the casino says wearing a red shirt is cheating,
                    that's cheating too?
                    \_ It's called a dress code, and if they so chose, they
                       could throw your ass out for violating it, yes.
                       \_ The question wasn't "should they throw you out", it
                          was "is breaking any casino rule cheating" and the
                          answer is "no"
                          \_ Well, actually, since most casinos are private
                             establishments, they can throw you out any time
                             for any thing.  They write the rules of the game,
                             they arbitrate those same rules.  So, I think
                             the actual answer you're looking for is, "yes".
                             I think the question you're answering is "is it
                             illegal".
                       \_ You said "breaking rules = cheating".  Breaking
                          rules.  Not some rules, but just breaking rules.
                          So is wearing a red shirt cheating, if the casino
                          has a rule against the wearing of red shirts?
                          \_ You're being obtuse.  See the post below -- I
                             think he's got a sane explanation.
                             \_ I'm not being obtuse.  The "breaking rules
                                = cheating" guy has a stupid definition he
                                was trying to defend, and I just showed
                                how ultimately silly it was.
                 \_ Maybe we should make 3 distinctions.
                    Breaking the house rules: Whatever rules they want.  They
                    can eject you and ban you from the premesis.
                    Breaking the game rules: Looking at other people's cards,
                    changing your bet mid-game.  Against house rules and
                    generally illegal.
                    Breaking the law: They eject/ban you and you go to jail.
                    Card counting without the use of a computer is only aginst
                    the house rules.
                    \_ Does signaling a whale player count as #2, breaking the
                       game rules?
                       \_ Counting cards by itself is a 1.  Not against
                          the rules, but some casinos won't want you as a
                          customer.  Signaling a friend by itself is a 0.
                          It's quite common and acceptable to tell a friend
                          to gamble at your "hot" table, for reasons of
                          hotness unrelated to card counting purposes.  So
                          a combination of a 1 and a 0, signaling based on
                          card counting, should not be a 2.