Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 30168
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2024/11/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/23   

2004/5/11 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30168 Activity:high
5/11    I'm waiting for the media and Dem. Congress to work themselves
        up into a frenzy over Berg's decapitation.  Of course no
        news organization will show the video on TV.
        \_ His family sent their son their just so they could blame it
           on Bushco.
        \_ I heard they played it on CNN.
        \_ "This kind of barbaric behavior will have the same effect it
           usually has: it will make civilized people around the world
           more determined than ever to exterminate al-Qaeda and its
           likeminded brethren.

           "Barbaric behavior doesn't win wars, it just makes your
           enemies more dedicated to their cause, which is why it's so
           important to eliminate the kind of barbarism we've recently
           seen at Abu Ghraib from our own side: because it just makes
           our enemies stronger. If we don't purge it root and branch,
           we've as good as lost the war. In more ways than one."
       -http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_05/003893.php
           \_ What do you hate America?  Why are you not on the side of our
              troops?  What's wrong with our heroic soldiers having some
              fun?  Why aren't Iraqis grateful enough to volunteer as comfort
              women and boys?
2024/11/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/23   

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www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_05/003893.php
I'd like for somebody in the media to seriously retrace this guy's steps in his final days to see what the heck happened between when he was being held by the FBI, and these killers. Posted by: 103 AJB on May 11, 2004 at 6:32 PM | 104 PERMALINK i doubt terrorists issue their captives western prison garb. Posted by: 105 mcgrayc on May 11, 2004 at 6:32 PM | 106 PERMALINK (Holding my nose), Okay, for the first time in my life, I agree with Al. I'm not a fan of blaming this on the fact that Berg was held by the US. There may be a valid story regarding that question, but to me its an illegitimate leap to begin blaming the US for this. Ricky: Is it possible to be horrified and angry about this and believe we need to fight the war on terror aggressively, but to also think that maybe fighting this war is not accomplishing this goal. To me, invading Iraq was the equivalent of invading Guatemala for the purpose of getting back at the Japanese in 1941. Why don't we focus on the people that actually have something to do with 9/11 instead of finding strawmen? I'm just really tired of those on the Right that insist that anybody who criticizes the war in Iraq doesn't take terrorism seriously. Posted by: 107 Doug-E-Fresh on May 11, 2004 at 6:33 PM | 108 PERMALINK Yes, he was. At least according to his parents, who heard from him saying that he was safe, he hadn't been mistreated, and he was coming home. Note: if Al Qaeda wanted to restage the Abu Ghraib abuses, why would he have any clothes on at all? Posted by: 111 plunge on May 11, 2004 at 6:37 PM | 112 PERMALINK These scum Al Qaedians said that this was revenge for Abu Ghraib. I think we should just nuke the motherf*ckers right f*cking now. Joe on May 11, 2004 at 6:37 PM | 114 PERMALINK 'I hope most Iraqis will see through Al Qaeda at this point. Posted by: 115 Alan on May 11, 2004 at 6:38 PM | 116 PERMALINK (Holding nose and feeling a bit queasy) Joe is right too. Those that perpetrated this are simply using Abu Ghraib as a convenient prop to incite anger. Posted by: 117 Doug-E-Fresh on May 11, 2004 at 6:38 PM | 118 PERMALINK Ricky Vandal - Almost no one that posts here is against the War on Terrorism. We want the US to fight the War on Terror and we want win it. The problem is that we invaded Iraq instead of fighting terrorists, which has lead us to the situation we're in now. Posted by: 119 Carl on May 11, 2004 at 6:38 PM | 120 PERMALINK My heart sank when I heard about this; It's as hideous and sick as when it happened to Daniel Pearl, and I hope the killers receive the justice they deserve, soon. I heard about his parents' response and about the FBI detaining him. At the time I heard all this -- even before I thought there was anything to think about other than being shocked and angry -- it didn't seem to add up. But why was he, an American contractor detained incommunicado? Why was he stopped by Iraqi police in Mosul then turned over to the US? Why did his parents have to sue the military to speak to him? And did anyone hear about him being taken hostage -- an American businessman with a family -- in ANY of the media? Posted by: 121 the red telephone on May 11, 2004 at 6:40 PM | 122 PERMALINK Geez, its getting thick in here, but ya know the problem with how the Bush junta has operated is that even I am beginning to wonder about some of the "coincidences. Posted by: 123 Keith G on May 11, 2004 at 6:42 PM | 124 PERMALINK Ah, the fruits of imperialism. Posted by: 125 The Ghost of Bill's Dick on May 11, 2004 at 6:43 PM | 126 PERMALINK like rush says just like colleage hazing no more what an idiot Posted by: 127 scott on May 11, 2004 at 6:43 PM | 128 PERMALINK Isn't it just a little to convenient? Posted by: 129 Obie on May 11, 2004 at 6:44 PM | 130 PERMALINK There is no such thing as a War on Terrrorism. Our War should be against Religious Extremists who believe that their ideosyncratic beliefs justify any kind of behavior. Unfortunately, religious extremists exist on both sides of this war. Posted by: 131 YellowDog on May 11, 2004 at 6:44 PM | 132 PERMALINK The Arab news sources like Al-arabiya and Al-Jazeera are not running the story, nor are any of the other Arab news sources. I've been looking for the Arab reaction and I suspect is that they will not run the story. Posted by: 133 sheerahkahn on May 11, 2004 at 6:44 PM | 134 PERMALINK There was no justification for this--it is merely, horrifically, criminal. And, as the work of criminals, there is no justification for retaliation. Our desire for retaliation helped get "us" into Iraq (I was against it, and I think the mucky mucks wanted into Iraq for the oil) because we wouldn't have done it without 9/11. I shudder to think of the world my grandchildren will grow up in--the berserkers are in charge, and heaven help the rest of us. Posted by: 135 Ellen on May 11, 2004 at 6:45 PM | 136 PERMALINK This is horrible and it has to end. Posted by: 137 annie on May 11, 2004 at 6:47 PM | 138 PERMALINK This beheading incident is despicable and can never be justified by any sane person. But guess where such practices are acceptable punishment? Read this chilling account from two British citizens falsely accused and tortured mercilessly into confessions. But Sampson and Mitchell were sentenced to something even worse. Posted by: 139 Apollo 13 on May 11, 2004 at 6:47 PM | 140 PERMALINK the problem is we look at war in days or months these people look at in decades generations if that is what it takes they took 5 years to plan 911 we took 6 months to plan a complete makeover of iraq who is the smart ones here? Posted by: 141 scott on May 11, 2004 at 6:48 PM | 142 PERMALINK But why was he, an American contractor detained incommunicado? Why was he stopped by Iraqi police in Mosul then turned over to the US? Why did his parents have to sue the military to speak to him? And did anyone hear about him being taken hostage -- an American businessman with a family -- in ANY of the media? Posted by: 143 Old Hat on May 11, 2004 at 6:49 PM | 144 PERMALINK It's not religious extremists because that is an excuse. No, this is evil men who have found a reason to rationalize their murderous behavior. It could just as well be politics, skin color, or candy preferences. The bottom line is that men, and women, who hate and are willing to kill will seize any reason to justify their bloodlust. Posted by: 145 sheerahkahn on May 11, 2004 at 6:50 PM | 146 PERMALINK Unfortunately, religious extremists exist on both sides of this war . Us religious moderates don't like the extremists any more than you do - but extrmist atheism isn't any better. Joe on May 11, 2004 at 6:50 PM | 148 PERMALINK Unfortunately, religious extremists exist on both sides of this war. Yep, but unfortunately the symmetry you portray is kinda ruined by one side having a leg up in the decapitation department. Posted by: 149 Hubris on May 11, 2004 at 6:52 PM | 150 PERMALINK And let's not forget, Dear Leader would rather have al Zarqawi alive than dead. Bush passed up 3 chances to kill this known terrorist because al Zarqawi's presence in northern (non-Saddamized) Iraq meant he could put "terrorists" and "Iraq" in the same sentence during the runup to war. Because invading Iraq was more important than stopping terrorists, we've got another poor man brutally murdered. Bush was so wrapped up in the "threat" of Saddam threat that he dismissed the REAL threat of Al-Quaeda. I keep thinking if this were Clinton, can you imagine the headlines? Posted by: 151 theorajones on May 11, 2004 at 6:55 PM | 152 PERMALINK who is the smart ones here? Posted by: 153 Freak on May 11, 2004 at 6:55 PM | 154 PERMALINK Might help if I provided a link (my bad) on my post at 6:47 PM about 155 Saudi Justice. We will likely -- certainly, the prosecutions declared so far, and the administrative actions in lieu of prosecutions for higher officers -- symbolicly purge ourselves of the footsoldiers of the barbarity, without ever reaching the head of the beast. The footsoldiers may lose their lives -- or at least a large part of them that will be spent in prison -- the field commanders will lose their careers, and the directors of the policy, those...