Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 30074
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
 
WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ
http://csua.com/feed/
2025/07/08 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/8     

2004/5/7 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic] UID:30074 Activity:very high
5/6     To whoever was suggesting the Branch Davidians were murdered in cold
        blood without provocation, these are the names of the four ATF agents
        killed when they tried to serve a search warrant:
        Conway LeBleu, Todd McKeehan, Robert Williams, Steven Willis
        \_ I'm one (the other?) guy who argued with ilyas. Call me "fascist".
           Now, I've read some conspiracy theories out there purporting that
           a) ATF agents opened fire first and b) the first 3 ATF deaths were
           friendly fire, which forensics supposedly corroborates. Then c)
           pissed off feds try to cover the thing up. I don't really know
           the truth here. The official inquiries don't support that, and if
           that was true then just what they were negotiating about during
           the weeks-long siege. I don't believe the Davidians were meekly
           unresisting. I do think it was a royal fuckup which wasn't
           adequately resolved.
        \_ why did the ATF call a local tv station to come on down
           and film them busting the doors down at le compound?  they
           in the US after WTC I.
           could have just called david koresh to come to the station
           and turn himself in.  instead someone unwisely turned
           it all into a clusterfuck.
        \_ Okay, quit it. You aren't Walter Cronkite. Give it a rest.
           -williamc
        \_ Bullshit, six Davidians also were killed in the initial
           shootout.  It has never been established that the Davidians
           fired first, more likely the ATF.  Koresh used to walk
           around town by himself a few days a week and had gone
           shooting with ATF agents in the past.  It was
           never proven any of their arms were illegal.  And I
           suppose you think Randy Weaver's wife and son also
           had it coming?
           Furthermore, this is the shit the intelligence agencies were
           up to during the '90s, all the while Islamicists were festering
           in the US after WTC I.                  -Mr. Bullshit
           \_ 'more likely the ATF'?  What are you talking about?  Do you
              really have a reasonably legitimate source showing that ATF
              is composed of trigger-happy psychopaths, or is this just
              juvenile anecdotal 'I Hate Mom and Da--err Cops!'?  I find it
              very, very unlikely that federal agents serving a warrant would
              have just started randomly shooting people, "Hey!  That guy is
              ugly! <BLAM!>  That dude is short!  <BLAM-BLAM!>"  Get fucking
              serious.  I find it much more realistic that they tried to serve
              the warrant, were fired upon, and in turn fired back.  People
              do tend to die in shootouts -- it's a proven fact.  Honest!  If
              you can provide even semi-credible sources to back your claims,
              I'll gladly concede the point (and be very pissed off at the
              gross incompetency that my tax dollars are paying for).
              \_ What was the warrant for?  Weren't they entrapped by the Feds
                 into buying an illegal shotgun or something stupid like that?
              \_ Proof that the Feds are a bunch of trigger happy jack boot
                 thugs?  Ruby Ridge.  Concede anything?
           \_ I'm not going to try to debate or defend the ATF raid, but
              someone very smugly said NO federal agents were killed, the
              Davidians never fired a shot, and challenged people to name the
              agents killed if there were any.  -dgies
           \_ what is this davidian thing all about?  it kind of reminds
              me of what we are doing to falluja.
              \_ And why the hell are you guys arguing about it NOW?!  There's
                 a lot more heinous things going on in the world RIGHT NOW.
                 JESUS.
                 \_ You see, son, there's this thing called HISTORY.  Some
                    people are interested in it because it can often provide
                    context to this other thing called the PRESENT.  The two
                    are often very strongly related to each other.  Use a
                    dictionary, you might find it elucidating.
                    \_ Yes, history is important.  However, rehashing idiotic
                       message board arguments from ages ago is not illuminating
                       in any way.  Absolutely nothing I've seen here wasn't
                       run into the ground by every wingnut on every side of
                       the issue 10 years ago, and it didn't help anything then
                       or provide context.  Oh yeah, and as to your cute
                       little dictionary comment, obFuckYou.
                       \_ It educated some people at the time as to the evils
                          the Government can inflict upon the People.  We
                          rehash it (this is the History Lesson part) in an
                          effort to educate those, apparently such as yourself,
                          that the Government still acts like that and it is
                          unacceptable.
2025/07/08 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/8     

You may also be interested in these entries...
2012/12/18-2013/1/9 [Politics/Domestic/SIG] UID:54562 Activity:nil
12/18   "NRA member Sen. Manchin says Newtown shooting should open assault
        weapons debate" http://www.csua.org/u/ypo
        '"The massacre of so many innocent children has changed -- has changed
        America. We've never seen this happen,"'  Was this guy in a cave during
        the Columbine High massacre?
        \_ Don't keep your hopes high, though.  It'll just be same-o same-o.
	...
2012/10/16-12/4 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:54502 Activity:nil
10/16   Cheat sheet for those who plan to watch tonight's debate:
        "What Romney and Obama will say at the debate, and what's the truth"
        http://www.csua.org/u/xz8 (news.yahoo.com)
        \_ http://bindersfullofwomen.tumblr.com
           Pretty much all you need to know.
        \_ http://www.bonkersworld.net/top-donors
	...
2012/11/5-12/4 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Reference/Tax] UID:54521 Activity:nil
11/5    "Tax Policy Center in Spotlight for Its Romney Study":
        http://www.csua.org/u/y7m (finance.yahoo.com)
        'A small nonpartisan research center operated by professed "geeks" ...
        found, in short, that Mr. Romney could not keep all of the promises he
        had made on individual tax reform ....  It concluded that Mr. Romney's
        plan, on its face, would cut taxes for rich families and raise them
	...
2011/8/1-12 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:54149 Activity:nil
8/1     What the Tea Party looks like from overseas:
        http://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2011/07/debt-ceiling-debate-seen-abroad
       \_ the best part is when the baby throws the poo in his diaper at
          boehner
	...
2011/7/26-8/6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:54144 Activity:nil
7/26    Oregon Congressman David Wu says he's resigning - Yahoo! News:
        http://www.csua.org/u/tvq
        "Democratic Rep. David Wu of Oregon has announced that he is resigning
        in the wake of allegations that he had a sexual encounter with an
        18-year-old woman."
        Given that:
	...
2009/7/21-8/6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:53176 Activity:nil
7/21    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnq-2BJwatE
        Stephenson @google booktour. it's pretty cool they have these
        recordings.
        \_ when is http://google.edu coming?
           \_ isn't that what google knol is?
                \_ http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/08/11/poor-google-knol-has-gone-from-a-wikipedia-killer-to-a-craigslist-wannabe
	...
2005/8/12-15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:39103 Activity:low
8/12    I'm surprised this hasn't already been posted, but:
        A military intelligence unit (Able Danger) identified a cell of the
        9/11 highjackers a year before 9/11, but was blocked from passing
        the info on to the FBI by Clinton Administration attorneys.  Even
        more surprising, the 9/11 commision was apparently never briefed on
        this, although their staff was informed.
	...
2004/10/26-27 [Reference/Military, Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:34366 Activity:high
10/26   Awesome.  Children's puppet show encourages massacre.
        http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41091
        \_ I love You, You love me
           We'll murder the Zionist Enemy...
        \_ that's hilarious, sad it's true.. sheesh..
           \_ If your livelihood was an olive grove, maybe you'd want to shoot
	...
2004/7/28 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:32526 Activity:very high
7/28    I don't get it.  What's wrong with having a society that comes
        together and decides that the poor and those in need should get
        some assistance?  I think people below are pushing individualism
        too far such that it became like pure survival of the fittest.
        Are humans like tigers.  Don't we function more effectively in
        cooperative groups?
	...
2003/9/18 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:10239 Activity:moderate
9/17    Wesley Clark: General Issues
        http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=9522
        Wesley Clark's command at Fort Hood lent 17 pieces of armor and
        15 active service personnel under his command to the Waco Branch
        Davidian operation.
        \_ food for thought- he's the Chairman of a electric car company.
	...
1999/9/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:16452 Activity:very high
9/2     Is the US Marshals considered "police"?  Why are there so many
        different kinds of national "polices": FBI, US Marshals, DEA,
        ATF, etc.?  Don't they overlap?  Why can't we just have one police
        department like some other countries?  Thx. -- New to this country
 _____                _  ______ _
|  ___| __ ___  ___  | |/ / ___| |__   __ _ _ __   __ _
	...