5/3     Controversial Tillman cartoon (i.e., idjut liburals can draw)
        http://www.ucomics.com/tedrall
        \_ This guy is an idiot, I think most conservatives (and liberals)
           would agree.
           \_ as a liberal, i agree.  however he also can't draw for shit.
              personally even if i *like* someone's message(not that i like
              this guy's message), if they can't draw for shit they have
              not business being on the comics page. Here's a liberal who
              actually knows how to draw:
              http://www.ucomics.com/boondocks
              and another:
              http://www.andysinger.com
              and another:
              http://www.ucomics.com/doonesbury
           \_ agreed. A little tact could have gone a long way. -- liberal
              \_ It's not only tact.  He had the guy saying, "Will I get
                 to kill Arabs?".  This is just plain bad. -another libural
                 \_ Why? He could have joined the CIA, FBI, or Homeland
                    Security in order to fight terrorism. He joined the Army
                    with intent to become a Ranger, who get to play judge,
                    jury, and executioner on people they feel are terrorists.
                    \_ No.  By the time Rangers or regular 11B's are called in,
                       someone else has alreday played judge and jury.  Even
                       Spec Ops guys are usually called in only after the big
                       decisions have been made by some grey-haired guy in an
                       office.
                    \_ No.  Ranger training is geared towards jump missions
                       and taking over air ports and other air related
                       activity.  Anything after that falls under standard
                       special forces training that anyone in the military
                       can get if they're a notch above the cut.
        \_ I don't understand why people have to insult people even
           when they do something cool.  Why make fun of this guy?  Why do
           republicans try to tear down Kerry's Vietnam record?  It's
           petty.  Why did Doonsebury try to make fun of Bush's visit to
           Iraq?  When someone does something cool, let 'em have it.
           Sheesh.
                \_ The point of contention is that he incessantly portrays
                   himself as a Vietnam war hero.  But you can't have it
                   both ways - yes he went and deserves credit but his
                   subsequent actions were despicable, to put it nicely.
                   \_ How is "despicable" putting it nicely? What sort of hate
                      filled vitriol would be "calling it as it is"?
        \_ You know, the above discussion leads me to believe it's not that
           controversial a cartoon -- basically nobody likes it, and they are
           all right.  Re: republicans trying to tear down Kerry's record, I
           think even Limbaugh is giving him due credit.  (When was the last
           time Bush got credit for anything from the other side?  Did he
           truly accomplish nothing?)
           Perhaps Kerry might have gotten a little bad press about that whole
           medal throwing thing, since some people view that as trying to sit
           on two stools at once. -- ilyas
           \_ What should Bush seriously be given credit for? Afghanistan seems
              to be the main thing that most people agreed on. Bush has gotten
              a lot of credit in the press about "leadership" with the 9/11
              stuff, besides the background rumblings about intelligence
              failures, which in the end is true, if the buck stops at the top
              then Bush's administration is responsible for failing to prevent
              9/11, although obviously not from some egregious personal wrong-
              doing. He gets rightfully criticized for foolish political stunts
              like the mission accomplished thing. And you can't expect "the
              other side" to cheer for republican policy items, although he
              is certainly 'given credit' for those. About Iraq, actually I
              felt that a lot of people approved of his tough stance towards
              Saddam, myself included, however this feeling dissipated when I
              watched the subsequent farce unfold.
              \_ Don't forget Lybia.  If you are an economist of a certain
                 stripe you also think "tax cuts cause recovery", so you
                 would probably attribute the recovery to Bush's insistence to
                 cut, cut, cut.  At any rate, it seems pretty clear Bush did
                 some good.  My point is that he gets no credit for the good
                 he did, which is unfortunate.  Actually I think all the
                 anti-Bush bile is having a counterproductive effect (if you
                 want to get Bush out of office).  -- ilyas
                 \_ I tend to think of Lybia in the same way I think of the
                    Berlin Wall coming down: it was in the works, and it was
                    just a matter of time.  For the sitting President to take
                    responsibility for it is rather disingenuous.  And as for
                    Afghanistan, props to Bush for pursuing the removal of the
                    Taliban, and props for finding Karzai, but a bakers-
                    dozen of wtfs for not finishing the Taliban off and for
                    withdrawing all military and most financial support for
                    the new govt.  Seriously, wtf?
                    \_ Libya was in the works?  In what sense?  Do you say the
                       same for Syria which has just started to cooperate? Will
                       you say the same for Iran if there's an uprising and
                       the crazies are kicked out and replaced by some sort of
                       republic/democracy?  The world doesn't get better
                       without people trying to make it better.  Bad people
                       don't just quietly go away.  They need to be threatened
                       or killed to make changes.
                 \_ Libya, not Lybia!
                    \_ I thought it was Libia.
           \_ Very true.  It's not controversial.  It's just bad.  Has anyone
              seen any interviews with Tillman or the like beforehand?  I'd
              be surprised that a story like his slipped past sports journal-
              ists unnoticed.  I'd be very interested to hear Tillman's own
              point of view on why he would enlist.  As for Bush's accomplish-
              ments, the only things I've seen that have approached notability
              are things which later proved to be all lip service and no funds
              (Education, Jobs Training, AIDS Research, Terrorism Funding,
              Military Funding, etc.).  Kerry got bad press over throwing
              the medals (and just about every single charge of waffling
              I've seen) because there are plenty of hack journalists more
              than willing to trim stories to fit their talking point du
              jour.  --scotsman
              \_ No, Kerry got bad press because he earned it.
        \_ Kerry did significantly more than throw his (actually someone
           else's depending on the day of the week) medals over a fence.
           He was in the vanguard of leftists undermining of the Vietnam
           war effort.  He and his ilk are why a free Hanoi subsequently
           fell and the millions fled on rafts.  All of his treasonous
           behavoir is well documented if you would bother to investigate:
           http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry
           \_ "free Hanoi"?  You are a moron.
              \_ thanks for adding so much to an otherwise intelligent
                 discussion.  -!the person you're replying to.
                 \_ huh huh ... you call the above an intelligent
                    discussion?  you are a moron.