Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 29722
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
 
WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ
http://csua.com/feed/
2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

2003/12/16-17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:29722 Activity:very high
12/16   http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82
        Saddam and Rumsfeld shaking hands and talking arms.  He was our
        bastard back then.  What happened?
        \_ He turned on us.
           \_ Wait...so bad guys are okay as long as they're on our side?
              I thought WMDs didn't matter, and we were there to wipe out
              a bad guy?  Can't... handle... hypocrisy... head... exploding...
                \_ Are you really this naive and stupid?  Sometimes you have
                   bargain with the devil.  Iran was (and remains)
                   clearly the more dangerous threat.
                   \_ Nah, the most dangerous threat is GW Bush and his
                      free-spending administration.  Oh, and our lovely
                      ally Saudi Arabia, from whence most of the 911
                      bombers and Osama himself hail from.
                   \_ No, *YOU* are stupid.  Iran is the *ONLY* muslim nation
                      in the middle east
                      which has a true democratic government, eventhough their
                      power is not seperated in the same manner as ours is.
                      If we didn't support the invasion of Iran by Iraq,
                      we wouldn't have to deal with Saddam right now, after
                      166 billion dollars and still don't see real way out of
                      this mass.
                      \_ Iran?  Democracy? You've got a really twisted idea
                         of what deomcracy is or you know nothin about how
                         their country is run.  Sigh.  I have been trolled.
              \_ We didn't think he'd use WMDs.  Up until then, Saddam was
                 our secular ally against the more worrisome Islamic
                 revolution.
                 \_ Which, incidentally, we precipitated by sending the CIA
                    to install the Shah in the 1950s.  But never mind about
                    that now.
                        \_ No, you are completely wrong.
                           The Shahs father acended to power in the 1920s.
                           Mossadeq was making overtures to the Soviets.
                    \_ I don't know about the "you are completely wrong"
                       poster, but overthrowing Iran's government was really
                       for the oil (at the same time guarding against
                       Communist expansion) that time. ;-)
           \_ No, Dubya wanted a ratings boost.  Saddam's still our bastard.
2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

You may also be interested in these entries...
2012/7/21-9/24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:54440 Activity:nil
7/21    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cold_War_pilot_defections
        This week's food for thought, brought to you by People's
        Republic of Berkeley: Did you know that many US pilots defected to
        communist Cuba?  South Korea pilots defected to communist
        North Korea? Iran<->Iraq pilots defected to each other?
        W Germany pilots defected to E Germany? Taiwan/ROC pilots
	...
2012/3/26-6/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:54347 Activity:nil
3/26    Things I learned from History: Lincoln was photographed with
        killer. Lincoln had 3 male lovers (he was bisexual!).
        Kennedy had an affair with a Nazi spy. Elenore Roosevelt
        was a lesbian!!!  Nerdy looking Ben Franklin was a suspected
        killer and quite a ladies man. WTF???
        \_ Did it mention anything about Washington and the cherry tree?
	...
2011/11/6-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:54212 Activity:nil
11/6    By a 2:1 ratio Americans think that the Iraq war was not worth it:
        http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm
        \_ Bad conservatives. You should never change your mind, and you
           should never admit mistakes.
           \_ Most "tea party" conservatives still support the war. It is the
              weak-kneed moderates that have turned against America.
	...
2011/2/16-4/20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:54041 Activity:nil
2/16    "Iraqi: I'm proud my WMD lies led to war in Iraq"
        http://www.csua.org/u/sl0 (news.yahoo.com)
        \_ Duh.  the best thing that could ever happen to a country is
           the US declaring war on it.  cf: japan, germany, and now iraq.
           the US winning a war with it.  cf: japan, germany, and now iraq.
	...
2010/11/2-2011/1/13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:54001 Activity:nil
11/2    California Uber Alles is such a great song
        \_ Yes, and it was written about Jerry Brown. I was thinking this
           as I cast my vote for Meg Whitman. I am independent, but I
           typically vote Democrat (e.g., I voted for Boxer). However, I
           can't believe we elected this retread.
           \_ You voted for the billionaire that ran HP into the ground
	...
2010/9/26-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53966 Activity:nil
9/24    Toture is what gave us the false info on WMD and Iraq.
        http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/09/25/opinion/1248069087414/my-tortured-decision.html
        Where is the apology jblack?
	...
2010/7/20-8/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53889 Activity:low
7/20    Is jblack still on? What about the rest of the pro-war cheerleaders?
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100720/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_iraq_inquiry
        \_ War is fought for the glory of generals and the economics of the
           war machine.  Looking for "justifications" for it is like looking
           for sense in the necronomicon.  Just accept it and move on.
        \_ When we fight with Red China, what nation will we use as a proxy?
	...
2010/2/22-3/30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53722 Activity:nil
2/20    Ok serious question, NOT political.  This is straight up procedural.
        Has it been declared that we didn't find WMD in iraq? (think so).
        So why did we go into iraq (what was the gain), and if nobody really
        knows, why is nobody looking for the reason?
        \_ Political stability, military strategy (Iran), and to prevent
           Saddam from financing terrorism.
	...
Cache (8192 bytes)
www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82
On March 30, 1984, the Security Council issued a presidential statement condemning the use of chemical weapons, without naming Iraq as the offending party. A State Department memo circulating the draft text observed that, "The statement, by the way contains all three elements Hamdoon wanted" 50 Document 51 . Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz, in Washington for the formal resumption of ties, met with Secretary of State George Shultz. He said that "Iraq's superiority in weaponry" assured Iraq's defense. Chemical warfare was viewed as a potentially embarrassing public relations problem that complicated efforts to provide assistance. Most of the information in this briefing book, in its broad outlines, has been available for years. Some of it was recorded in contemporaneous news reports; Almost all of the primary documents included in this briefing book were obtained by the National Security Archive through the Freedom of Information Act and were published in 1995 54 Note 3 . You will need to download and install the free 55 Adobe Acrobat Reader to view. It remarks on "Israeli acumen" in selling to both Iran and Iraq. The Iran-Iraq war was a tragedy for Iraqis and Iranians, resulting in hundreds of thousands of casualties and immense material damage. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 57 Document 2: United States Embassy in Israel Cable from Samuel W. A source says Israel will refrain from selling arms to Iran while Americans are held hostage in Tehran, but that European arms dealers were providing it with weapons with or without government approval. In response, the Carter administration froze Iranian assets and imposed other sanctions. Secretary of State Alexander Haig sends a personal message to Iraqi Foreign Minister Saadoun Hammadi, noting that it is important that "our two countries be able to exchange views, freely and on a systematic basis," paving the way for Deputy Assistant Secretary Morris Draper's meetings in Baghdad. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 61 Document 6: United States Interests Section in Iraq Cable from William L. Iraqi Minister for Foreign Affairs Praise for Visit of Under Secretary Draper , April 15, 1981. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 63 Document 8: United States Interests Section in Iraq Cable from William L. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 64 Document 9: Department of State Cable from Alexander M. Upon returning to Washington, Under Secretary Draper assures the head of the Iraqi interests section that he was extremely pleased with his visit to Baghdad and prospects for improved relations and increased trade. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 65 Document 10: United States Interests Section in Iraq Cable from William L. Policy on Arms Sales and Transfers to Iraq and Iran," June 3, 1981. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 68 Document 13: Department of State Cable from Alexander M. The State Department provides press guidance to regional missions regarding removal of Iraq from its list of countries that support international terrorism. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 69 Document 14: National Security Study Directive (NSSD 4-82) from Ronald W. Strategy for the Near East and Southwest Asia," March 19, 1982. President Reagan calls for a review of policy for the Middle East and South Asia, to prepare for decisions regarding procurement, arms transfers, and intelligence planning. Revised guidelines are needed because of regional diplomatic and global oil market developments. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 70 Document 15: United States Interests Section in Iraq Cable from William L. Iran was reporting chemical weapons use against its forces by this time. According to a 1991 article in the Los Angeles Times, American-built helicopters were used by Iraq for some of its chemical weapons attacks; Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 71 Document 16: Department of State Cable from George P. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 72 Document 17: Department of State, Office of the Secretary Delegation Cable from George P. By working together to combat terrorism, our efforts should be more effective. In its assessment of Iraq's nuclear program, the Central Intelligence Agency indicates that Iraq probably plans to eventually obtain nuclear weapons. The CIA says it has not identified such a program, but remarks that Iraq "has made a few moves that could take it in that direction," while noting the difficulty of clandestine research and development and procurement of the necessary technology and fissile materials. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 75 Document 20: United States Interests Section in Iraq Cable from Barbara K. Tells the State Department that a government official from (presumably) South Korea reported that Iraq asked his government to militarize Hughes helicopters that were sold and delivered earlier in 1983. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 76 Document 21: National Security Decision Directive (NSDD 99) from Ronald W. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 77 Document 22: Department of State, Bureau of Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs Information Memorandum from Jonathan T. Shift from Position of Strict Neutrality," October 7, 1983. Iran says that Iraq has been using chemical weapons against Iranian troops. Officials from the State Department's Bureau of Politico-Military Affairs tell Secretary Shultz that the department has additional information confirming Iraq's "almost daily" use of chemical weapons. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 80 Document 25: Department of State, Office of the Assistant Secretary for Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs Action Memorandum from Jonathan T. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 82 Document 27: Department of State Cable from Kenneth W. Reports that Donald Rumsfeld wants to visit Iraq during his tour of Middle Eastern countries as an envoy for President Reagan, but notes that he does not think his visit will be worthwhile unless he meets directly with Saddam Hussein. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 83 Document 28: United States Interests Section in Iraq Cable from William L. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 84 Document 29: United States Interests Section in Iraq Cable from William L. Ambassador Rumsfeld's Meeting with Tariq Aziz and Saddam Hussein," December 14, 1983. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 85 Document 30: United States Embassy in Italy Cable from Maxwell M. At a 90-minute meeting with Donald Rumsfeld, Saddam Hussein evinces "obvious pleasure" at a letter Rumsfeld brought from President Ronald Reagan. He encourages arrangements that might provide alternative transshipment routes for Iraq's oil, including pipelines through Saudi Arabia or to the Gulf of Aqaba in Jordan. Rumsfeld comments on Iraq's oil exports, suggests alternative pipeline facilities, and discusses opposition to international terrorism and support for a fair Arab-Israeli peace. Source: Declassified under the Freedom of Information Act 88 Document 33: Department of State, Office of the Assistant Secretary for Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs Action Memorandum from Richard W. Eagleburger to William Draper, Dated December 24, 1983 , December 22, 1983. Export-Import Bank to provide Iraq with financial credits. It would have carried oil from northern Iraq to the Gulf of Aqaba in Jordan, alleviating the disruptive effect on Iraq's oil output that resulted from Iran's attacks on oil transshipment facilities in the Persian Gulf and from Syria's closing of a pipeline that had transported Iraqi oil. International financier Bruce Rappaport, a friend of CIA director William Casey, was also a central figure in the proposed deal. The Israelis, for their part, demanded guarantees that pipeline facilities would not cause environmental damage. All involved had their reasons for at least hy...