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| 5/24 |
| 2003/9/10 [Health/Men, Reference/Religion] UID:29527 Activity:very high |
9/9 Why isn't penile circumcision on minors illegal? They are being
subjected to ritualistic cosmetic surgery without any form of
consent, especially in the case of infants. I mean seriously.
There is legal paranoia about so many things why not this?
\_ Because you're a troll
\_ http://dir.salon.com/mwt/feature/1998/10/26feature.html
\_ Kill the Jews!
\_ I was cut and am not a Jew.
\_ But I'll bet you know one! Kill the Jews!
\_ Ok I'm convinced. let's start with you.
\_ Kids are not capable of consent. Parents make their decisions for
them. That is the way the world works. --dim
\_ therefore if parents want to mutilate them, it's OK? Get a clue.
\_ How about earrings? Should girls have to wait until 18? --dim
\_ Parents should not wantonly pierce their kids against
the kids' will. If the kid wants a piercing, more power
to them. -tom
\_ The point here is that the kid has no power of consent.
Whether they want a piercing or a tattoo is not relevant.
\_ You don't understand the concept of consent. The
kid can't "consent" to a tattoo withour their
guardian's consent--but that doesn't mean the
guardian can consent for them. -tom
\_ actually, yes, it does.
\_ Do you think parents should be allowed to tattoo and
pierce their young children? They may not have legal
consent, but they have rights.
\_ Yes, they should be allowed to unless the act can
be demonstrated to be cruel or unusual. That's
what this hinges on. Is circumcision cruel and
unusual? One side says it is and the other not.
Most people (as with earrings) think it is not.
\_ umm. they're doing you a favor dude, how many girls wanna
you know what to a uncircumsized weanie.
\_ I'm a little ignorant here, but are there health issues for or
against circumcision? Also, I knew Jews get circumcized, but what
about Catholics, Mormons, Christians, and Moslems? Buddhists?
\- you dont know whether
moslems are circumcized? --psb
\_ It's a very "American" thing to do. In most cases religion
has nothing to do with it. It's societal.
\_ Religion (Christianity) has a lot to do with what is
considered "American". It is of religious origin.
\_ Not really. Certainly nothing life endangering. One could also
say we should chop off kids' fingers because they use them to
pick up bottles of poison.
\_ It is easier to keep clean and cancer risk is lower but it isn't
like you'll die sterile at age 24 if you're not. It's like
jogging. You're better off if you do but if you don't, hey.
\_ Hindus do not believe in circumcision.
\_ Circumcision pics: http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell
\_ But sensitivity is relevant premature ejaculation.
\_ My mom put me thru all these when I was 11 in Hong Kong.
\_ It reduces sensitivity, which means that teenage boys might be
slightly less of horndogs... maybe this will make them better
in bed, maybe worse...
\_ Bullshit. Americans are not less horny than Euros for example.
Sensitivity is irrelevant to horniness.
\_ But sensitivity is relevant to premature ejaculation.
\_ Prove it.
\_ You feel better, you cum earlier. Isn't it?
\_ how do you know it's not just "you feel better"?
\_ More than sensitive enough to cum a few times a day. --cut guy
\_ I had a circumcision like 2 years ago due to a medical condition
where my foreskin started losing its elasticity. I got my dick
stuck, and had to go to ER. After that, the doctor told me I
need to circumcize. It wasn't a fun experience.
\_ My dad had a circumcision when he was 50-something. |
| 5/24 |
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| dir.salon.com/mwt/feature/1998/10/26feature.html Ollivier - - - - - - - - - - October 26, 1998 | W hen I told people that our newborn son would not be circumcised, I didn't realize that a tiny but vital part of his penis would touch off deeply held convictions about cultural mores, aesthetics, psychology, hygiene, father-son relations, American identity and thousands of years of biblical traditions. Aside from this brush with reality, however, the mushroom leitmotif of the circumcised penis remained the unequivocal, unquestioned status quo of my youth and of all my peers. It was the uncircumcised penis, with its strange fleshy retractability, that was somehow freakish, a slightly vestigial aberration, like being born with a tail or a set of gills. Years of living in Europe and being married to a French (uncircumcised) Catholic changed all that. Because only Jews and Arabs practice routine circumcision in Europe -- in fact, the United States is the only country in the industrialized world to practice it across the board -- I eventually grew so accustomed to the intact penis that a circumcised one now looks startlingly bereft. Still, when I told people in the States that our son would not be circumcised it was as if, in keeping his little foreskin intact, I was committing a perfidious impropriety: refuting both my Jewish and American identity and, in so doing, robbing my son of both. For all those who expressed their convictions, however -- the astonished Jewish relative, the slightly repelled girlfriend, the perturbed American husband -- a number of questions hung in the air, unanswered. How did circumcision evolve from a strictly Jewish and Muslim ritual to a standard medical procedure performed on a vast majority of American males, irrespective of religion? Why is the United States the only Western nation in the world to practice it routinely, despite overwhelming evidence debunking medical claims and enduring myths? More important, what exactly is the foreskin, what happens when we remove it and why do we continue to opt for circumcision? It doesn't take much to realize that nature didn't intend the foreskin and the penis to be separated at birth. Try retracting the foreskin of a newborn's penis and you're struck by the steadfast, tenacious grip it has on the glans, or head. The foreskin is sealed to its bounty like a silo, and only slowly, over the years, yields to full retractability. The foreskin contains thousands of highly sensitive sensory receptors called Meissner corpuscles, which are more abundant there than in any other part of the penis. Richly endowed with a profusion of blood vessels, it also has a ridged band of peripenic muscles that protects the urinary tract from contaminants, and an undersurface lined with mucocutaneous tissue found nowhere else on the body, which contains ectopic glands that produce natural emollients and antibacterial proteins similar to those found in mother's milk. With its frenar ridges and its thousands of nerve endings, the foreskin not only protects the glans, which in an intact male is extremely sensitive, it also accounts for roughly one-third of the penis' sexual perceptivity. In short, evolution has seen to it that the penises of all mammals come protected in a remarkably fine-tuned and responsive foreskin. After nine months of infinitely complex and elegant work at literally becoming whole persons, however, the majority of American newborn males have their foreskins removed. Curiously, in a culture where the rights of every living thing are vigorously endorsed by the vox populi, most parents opt neither to view nor to question the mechanics of this procedure. In cases where the prepuce is drawn tightly over the glans, a dorsal slit will facilitate applying the cone of the draw stud (the bell) over the glans. The prepuce is then pulled through and above the bevel hole in the platform and clamped in place. In this way the prepuce is crushed against the cone causing hemostasis. We allow this pressure to remain five minutes, and in older children slightly longer. Finally, what nature intended as an internal organ is irrevocably externalized. Perhaps for parents who don't watch a circumcision (the majority don't; But the fact remains that millions of American newborns routinely undergo this procedure, and most parents don't really know why. |
| www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell -> www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell/ It has Velcro straps to restrain the baby's arms and legs so that he cannot move. Anaesthetic injections will cause the penis to swell, causing pain and making the surgery more difficult. Both injections and topical anaesthetic creams can be dangerous. General anaesthesia is never used on young babies because of the risk of breathing problems. The first stage of circumcision is to grasp the foreskin with forceps, and widen the opening. The glans and inner lining of the foreskin are still developing in the young child. The surgeon trims as much tissue as possible to reduce the amount of necrotic tissue and the possibility of infection. Occasionally, edema (swelling) will trap the plastic ring on the shaft of the penis. In this case it's usually necessary to cut off the ring, using a guide and ring cutter, although application of ice will sometimes reduce edema enough to remove the ring. Circumcision removes (on average) one third of the penile skin system (sensitive inner and outer preputial layers), including the peripenic dartos muscle, the frenar band, and part of the frenulum. |