8/15    Rise of Nations is pretty cool, BUT, are there games that emphasizes
        less on build-up (technology, citizens, research, etc) and more
        on strategic fighting? Like simply moving troops, using artillery,
        etc? This build-up process is simply stupid.
        \_ "amateurs talk about strategy, pros talk about logistics"
           \_ there are games which allow you to manage supply lines and such
        \_ Nectaris: Military Madness for PSX.  One of my all time favorites.
           It's a turn-based game though, but I think that's better than RTS
           anyways.  [edit] Btw, N: MM feels a lot more like a board game
           than a video game.  If you are a hardcore grognard, try something
           like Europa Universalis or wait for Road to Moscow to come out.
           Also, check out http://grognard.com. -- ilyas
           Also, check out http://grognard.com.  [edit2] Sorry, I remembered one
           more thing: check out Combat Mission games from Battlefront.
           Yes, I play wargames a lot. -- ilyas
        \_ play regular wargames.  maybe like Hearts of Iron
        \_ agree with above. there are tons of set piece turn based games out
           there with a lot more strategic depth than the click fest you'll
           get in any RTS game.