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| 7/8 |
| 2003/8/15 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:29351 Activity:insanely high |
8/15 Whee, oui, bienvenu l'ete!
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/08/14/paris.heatwave/index.html
\_ I'm waiting for someone to blame the heatwave on terrorism.
\_ blame it on Dubya, he didn't sign Kyoto did he?
\_ the funny thing is, depending on which model you believe,
climate change will hurt europe with cold, not heat.
\_ Why do you hate America?
\_ I'll eat the obvious bait: 1) the Senate ratifies treaties,
not the President, 2) Clinton didn't sign it and send it to
the Senate, 3) if Clinton had signed it, and even if Kyoto
wasn't a complete crock of shit, and even if human events
can trigger global warming, and if Kyoto could actually halt
those triggers, and global warming actually exists as some
self proclaimed environmental experts believe, and if the
current heat wave in some places is caused by global warming,
then it still wouldn't have helped because at this point in
the treaty's life span almost nothing would have changed.
Thanks for sharing your hatred and ignorance with us. And
yes I stopped counting at (3) because I didn't care that
much.
\_ The heat now is a freak climatic occurrence, they happen.
However there's no doubt things have been warming up this
century, and even if not entirely proven, it's fairly
well-accepted that man-made pollutants have some role in
it. The Kyoto treaty may be badly written, but it'd be
nice to see the head of the world's biggest energy user
and polluter (total and per capita) take more steps about
it than signing away nature reserves to oil companies
(aside from the $15 million or so for clean cars, which is
a start.) As I understand it, both Bush & Clinton
poo-pooed Kyoto without bothering to share their ideas on
how emissions could be reduced. -John
\_ "fairly well accepted" doesn't cut it. At one time
it was fairly well accepted that the earth was flat,
unicorns roamed the forests, and dragons flew in
distant [but not too distant] skies eating peasants.
I'm much more concerned about the toxic crap we
[all countries] pump into the environment. There
is a direct link between various cancers, lowered
birth rates, increased birth defect rates and the
destruction of numerous plant and animal species
linked to toxic chemicals humans are dumping into
the environment yet we do almost nothing about that
while the Kyoto "fuck the Americans" Treaty gets
touted as some sort of earth saving measure based
on nothing more than biased models, supposition,
hatred for America, and "fairly well accepted".
\_ Actually, we do all kinds of stuff about toxic
chemicals in the environment. Try again.
\_ Ignorant lout. We do almost nothing compared
to how much is being dumped. *You* try again.
\_ I'm not interested in 'fuck the americans' (being
one myself and all.) Rather, by 'well accepted'
let me clarify that there are a large number of
studies which chalk up human influence as a major
(you'll note, I never said "the") factor behind
the increase in global temperatures. You also
seem to neglect that a reduction in CO2-emitting
processes (gasoline-driven cars, coal firing
power plants, whatever) has as an inevitable side
effect a heavy reduction of the toxic materials
you refer to. So where is the problem? Your
attempt to equate a widespread scientific belief
with unicorns is pretty sad. -John
\_ Wide spread scientific belief is of no more
value than unicorns. You've heard of the
scientific method. It has yet to be applied
to the question of global warming. I'm not
nearly as concerned with something like CO2
as I am all the other stuff that is actually
directly and indirectly killing us all on a
daily basis. No one disputes that we're
poisoning our own environment. CO2 isn't
a good thing but it isn't killing us, causing
birth defects or dropping the sperm counts
across Europe to near sterile levels.
\_ All we know is temperatures increased ~ 0.5
degree during this century, of which most occurred
during the first half. More sophisticated
data shows atmospheric temperatures have dropped
in the past 25 years while surface temperatures
have risen. We also know that CO2 levels are
high. This is all scientists know. Everything
else is conjecture made by those with
a political agenda.
\_ (1) Human's ability to have a negative impact on
the world's environment and ecosystems has
long been demonstrated (ozone layer depletion,
rain forest reduction, etc.).
(2) Cutting CO2 emissions is the obvious thing
to do if the rise in temperature is in any
way human related.
(3) What kind of evidence is sufficient to
convince you that the temperature increases
is caused by human activities? A sudden
sharp rise in temperatures around the globe?
\_ Maybe because temperatures have exhibited
much larger oscillations since the
dinosaurs. E.g. the mini-ice age and
settlement of Greenland during the last
millenium.
\_ Please see my comments above about toxic
chemicals in the environment. Let's clean up
something we *know* is killing us before we
waste time and energy doing something which
may have no effect at all. |
| 7/8 |
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| www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/08/14/paris.heatwave/index.html Story Tools 26 more video VIDEO Heat strains France's nuclear reactors, the country's main source of electricity. Yes No 39 VIEW RESULTS VOTE PARIS, France (CNN) -- French authorities have announced a plan of action after officials revealed an estimated 3,000 people have died of heat-related causes in the past two weeks. Government officials, including Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin and Health Minister Jean-Francois Mattei, held an emergency meeting Thursday to discuss ways of dealing with what Mattei has described as a "veritable epidemic" of deaths. A "Plan Blanc" or "White Plan" has been put into action, with doctors and nurses being recalled from leave, some morgue workers called out of retirement, and further 1,000 hospital beds being made available from Friday. The plan also calls for the nation's hospitals to appoint a "crisis group" to ensure that resources are available to care for the victims. Emergency-room doctors criticized the French government for not acting quickly enough to deal with the crisis, which is now in its second week. Many of the ministers, including Raffarin, had been on vacation. French officials blame the high death toll in part on the length of the heat wave and the fact that Parisian buildings typically lack air conditioning. General Funeral Services, which has approximately 25 percent of the funeral home business in France, reported to the Health Ministry that it had handled 3,230 deaths across the country in the previous week, a number 37 percent above the number of deaths for the same week a year ago. In a written statement, the French Health Ministry said, "Drawing on all the data, and taking account of extrapolations to apply to the whole of France, the number of the deaths tied directly or indirectly to heat during this period can be estimated at around 3,000 for the whole of France. He said emergency physicians estimated that between 1,000 and 2,000 people had died in the Paris region alone. Saint-Antoine Hopital in Paris, which has no air conditioning, was packed with patients -- many of them elderly, and many of them in beds pushed into hallways. The head of funeral services for Paris said the city's morgues were full. The French television network TF1 aired video of air-conditioned tents that had been erected to hold the bodies of the dead. French officials are blaming the duration of the heat wave for the deaths. Between August 3 and August 13, temperatures regularly exceeded 40 C (104 F), TF1 reported. Typically, the temperature in August in Paris is around 23 C (75 F). Others, particularly those who have worked in the country's morgues, are being called out of retirement to help deal with the flood of dead bodies. Doctors said typically about 30 people a day die in the Paris area. This year, that number has climbed to more than 180 a day. Weather forecasts predict cooler temperatures in Paris for the next couple of days, with the high Saturday perhaps holding in the mid-20s C (mid-70s F). Story Tools 40 Click Here to try 4 Free Trial Issues of Time! |