8/8 So why did Israel break the ceasefire? No flames please, I am
seriously trying to understand this.
\_ ??? They didn't. URL, please. CNN reports nothing about it.
\_ http://sg.news.yahoo.com/030808/1/3d9km.html
\_ This says no such thing.
\_ It isn't a ceasefire when the other side is still shooting and
taking public 'credit' for killing your civilians. Can you ask
a more loaded question next time? Thanks!
\_ Please show me evidence that Hamas or Fatah is taking
"credit" for this. That is what I was asking for.
\_ Arafat's boys have taken credit for several attacks
recently. Read the papers everyday. I shouldn't have to
provide you proof that the sky is blue or water is wet.
\_ Did you read about the recent kidnappings of israeli teens by
terror groups? Israel never broke any ceasefire agreements
first.
\_ How about that big wall cutting into Palestinian land? I guess
they should be proud the land is going to better use huh?
\_ Oh yeah, a little construction vs actual kidnapping and
murder.
\_ I thought they were still classified as "missing."
\_ One was found dead recently. Some palestinians tried to
force a soldier into their car recently, but ran when he
\_ I think you're misusing the term 'flame'.
cocked his rifle. His superiors gave the soldier a hard time
for not firing and ending their reign of terror.
\_ I did not know this. Thanks for telling me. I know
the US media only ever gets 1/2 of the story and
usually the details all mixed up at that.
\_ I think even mentioning Israel on the motd qualifies as a flame.
Its almost like a motd corallary of Godwin's law.
\_ I think you're misusing the term 'flame'. You probably mean
'troll'.
\_ very good point... shall we call it the MOTD Corallary and
try to circulate it in general use? Someone mail the jargon
file.
\_ About the infamous West Bank wall. I am wondering whether the
Palestinian claims that the wall is a land grab attempt is true and
to what degree. Does anyone have a URL for a map that shows where
this wall will pass and Israel's actual internationally recognized
border?
\_ What's so infamous about a wall? If Canadians were coming over
the border to commit suicide bombings every day, we'd not only
start building walls, but raid and invade parts of Canada on a
near daily basis until we broke their will or killed every last
one of them. Walls? That's tame compared to what most any
other country would do in Israel's position.
\_ In order to have an internationally recognized border, your
existence must be internationally recognized. Israel isn't
while numerous other 3rd world states with infinitely worse
human rights records (such as *all* of their neighbors) are.
How can anyone seriously expect the Israelis to respect anything
"international" when they don't even exist legally to a large
chunk of the planet?
\_ I meant the internationally recognized border as in what UN
and countries who do recognize the state of Israel think
their border is. And please don't change the topic. I asked
for the map, not an excuse for building the security wall.
And BTW, Jordan and Egypt have signed peace agreements
with Israel a long time ago, so it's not like none of their
neighboors are not recognizing them.
\_ fortunately, our local google hater has not yet brought
google to it's knees.
http://www.gush-shalom.org/thewall
\_ True, they did. After getting beaten into submission.
Several times. Anyway, to answer your question, there
really isn't such a thing. You want the pre-67 borders?
Post-67? What about all the deadman's land both
populations have expanded into since 47? There just
aren't any nice clean lines anywhere. That's part of the
problem. Borders aren't real. If someone pays you taxes
they're inside your borders, if not then not.
\_ It is exactly this kind of idiotic thinking that has
put Israel in the position it is today, with 200k
settlers smack dab in the middle of 3.5M Arabs,
neither of who is going to move. This desire to
have it all will inevitably lead to Israel's demise,
at least as a Jewish state. Perhaps it will live on
as a multi-secular state, sort of like Lebanon. Too
bad you didn't reign in the fanatics while you still
could have. It is too late now.
\_ Israel can't be a multi secular state because one
of your segments wants to genocide the other major
segment and 'push them into the sea'. Yes, it's
now too late for the Muslim fanatics to genocide
the Jews.
\_ By that "thinking," it was alwas "too late" for
Israel. 5 million Jews in smack dab in the middle
of 200-300 million Arabs, a lot less than 6%.
Also, I wouldn't trust a map that declares,
"The Palestinians agreed to settle for 22%," when
so many are holding out for more.
\_ Anyone who calls Lebanon a "multi secular state"
has no business advising anyone on their affairs.
Lebanon is a chaotic puppet state run by Syria and
has been for decades. You're either deeply confused
and misinformed or just plain nutty.
\_ What would you call it then? There are people
of more than one religion there, aren't there?
Being like Lebanon is not a thing to aspire to.
\_ I'd call it a Syrian run shit hole puppet
state, just like I called it above but with
extra emphasis because you didn't read it
the first time. Lebanon is not a country.
They don't have a government of any note.
Holding up Lebanon as an example of something
to emulate is simply bizarre. If your only
standard to call something a multi whatever
state is 'people of more than one religion
there', then every country in the world
fits your description, many of them far better
than the wreck that is Lebanon.
\_ This is the kind of future Israel has
bought for itself. Watch and see. If
you are not familiar with Lebanon's
attempt to set up a multi-ethnic
Constitution and the resulting civil
wars, then more the pity to be you.
Not that history is your strong point,
but Syria has only occupied the country
since 1990, not "many decades" as you claim. |
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