8/7     Can someone tell me if the following attack will help bring down
        google?  It makes money primarily by selling sponsored links.  Web site
        operators pay something like 25 cents each time a person searches
        for something and clicks on the sponsored link leading to his page.
        He has to pay regardless whether the person makes a purchase or
        moves on without even reading the page.  So... build a program that
        searches for all sorts of keywords and clicks through all the
        sponsored links.  Do this automatically 24x7.  The businesses paying
        for the sponsored links will see traffic go up but not their sales
        or even "viewing time" because it's all automated.  They'll eventually
        reach a point where paying for the sponsored links is not bringing in
        new business.  So they stop advertising on google.  If enough people
        pull out, google's revenue will dry up.
        \_ There is no way to quickly kill google.  However, as useful as I
           find google, I fear it will die a death of a thousand cuts, if for
           no other reason than because they made an html link worth money.
           This alone will mean that they are pitting themselves against
           the intellects of every greedy hoser out on the internet, and that's
           a battle they cannot win.  I already found lots of kinds of queries
           degrade in quality significantly over the last year, because people
           are starting to find ways to hose google successfully.
             -- sad google user
           \_ Why does their pay-per-click marketing mean that every hoser
              on the internet will want to battle with them?  Google can
              charge for the links because they have a lot of traffic flowing
              to their site.  Not every hoser has that advantage.
              \_ You don't understand.  Because google is useful, and because
                 their algorithm is based on links, links acquire value.  As
                 soon as something like that acquires value, hosers will find
                 a way to generate this value for themselves, to the detriment
                 of the community at large.  There is no way out for google,
                 because the problem is essential to what they do.
                   -- sad google user
                 \_ Once google's relevance is ruined by people who are
                    gaming the system, someone with a new algorithm will
                    step in to fill the void.  That's how google gained
                    momentum in the first place -- they used a different
                    algorithm that worked better than the existing ones.
                    \_ Again, there is no way out, because the problem is
                       fundamental to searching the internet.
                         -- sad google user
                    \_ The tragedy of the commons does not have a technical
                       solution.
                       \_ it's called a cobalt-60 bomb
                       \_ I love when you talk about the tragedy of the
                          commons.  It turns me on when you get concerned
                          about the farmers in great britain and how they
                          use their land.  Do it some more!
        \_ is there some search engine you prefer, or do you just want to
           make the internet less useful?
        \_ By saying "help bring down", I assume you DO want to bring down
           Google. Why?
            \_ yah, why? but, i bet a sustained long term attack would be
                difficult to sustain from many ips, and even so, the result
                would probably be a change in their ad pricing structure.
            \_ His website probably isn't the first link in a search.
            \_ Some people are just haters and can't stand to see anyone
               else succeed.
        \_ Google would just block out the ips you used.  What you can do
           is this: some keywords (like the keywords spammers bid on) are
           very expensive, on the order of $5 per click.  Search for
           "email marketing" and click on all of the links.
        \_ Do you think you're the first person to run scripts against google?
           They get something like 140 million queries/day the last I read.
           You're going to ruin them by pounding them from 4 or 5 ips?  I don't
           think so.  You'll find yourself on an ACL and they and their
           customers will sort it out in a quick email, end of story.