7/28 There are stories of pilots from communist countries defecting to
other places with their planes (N Korean Mig-15 to S Korea, Soviet
Mig to US, Chinese Mig to Taiwan, etc etc). Are there stories of
pilots defecting TO communist countries (e.g. U.S. F-16 to Soviet,
etc etc)?
\_ Just about 1 month ago there were rumor about couple F-16 from
Taiwan defected to the mainland China.
\_ by "rumor" do you mean article in the People's Daily? I
wouldn't trust the Chinese state run media to tell me the
fucking weather.
\_ looking at how we have hyped up to the iraq war, i think
our 'free' media isn't much better either. I use to think
otherwise, but now I am fully convinced our government gets
to decide largely what they want to feed us. no better than
the state run media in china, period.
\_ I wouldn't trust the Republican run US media to tell me
the fucking weather either.
\_ How could you not trust such Fox News tickers as these:
... Pointless news crawls up 37 percent ... Do Democrats
cause cancer? Find out at http://FOXNEWS.COM ... Rupert Murdoch:
Terrific Dancer ... Dow down 5000 points ... Study: 92
percent of Democrats are gay ... JFK Posthumously joins
Republican Party ... Oil slicks found to keep seals
young, supple ...
\_ Why Republican? Why not just say SATAN! or BIG BROTHER!
Or THE MONSTER UNDER THE BED! If you think our media is
right wing biased, you're *really* far left on the spectrum
like the nutters writing the SF Guardian who call the
\_ after 1989, there's no more point in defecting. Let me as you
this, where do you think the future is, China or Taiwan?
SF Chronicle right wing and rag on Feinstein for being a
Republican shill. Sometimes the answer lies within....
\_ If you don't think that the media is corporate
dominated, you have the most serious case of tunnel
vision imaginable. corporate != republican, exactly,
but the big media companies serve business interests
in a way that is unprecedented both historically and
in comparison to other countries
\_ well said!!
\_ that's fine and all and I don't disagree that news
has become big business. however, it is no more
republican than Senator Feinstein. If you meant
to say 'corporate' then say corporate. btw, where
exactly do you think the democrats get hundreds of
millions of dollars every election cycle? hint:
it isn't small donors sending in their $5 each.
\_ Actually in Dean's case (the man with the most
money so far) the majority of his money comes
from small donations. Yet another reason Dean
is The Man. -aspo
\_ http://billmon.org/archives/Dean table.gif
\_ Mostly people from the west have more sense than that but in the
last 50+ years there have been a tiny number of defections but I
don't know of any that included planes. It would've been a huge
PR coup for the communists and you'd know about it.
\_ we'd know about it because the american media loves to distribute
the propaganda of other countries? this isn't BBC. this is CNN.
\_ How many reports of tapes sent to Al-Jazeera, or Iraqi
press conferences did they re-broadcast? -John
\_ Some would say too many. It's more fun to think we live
in a Big Brother controlled State then in reality. I
think these people imagine they're some sort of freedom
fighters, fighting the good fight against the oppressive
Bush controlled CIA run CNN or something. The
information wants to be free or something like that.
\_ no, it's not fun. it's just the way it is. try
comparing domestic news against news broadcast in
europe and you'll know what i'm talking about. i'm
not saying foreign news is better. i'm saying that
US media as a whole makes a LOT of editorial choice
about what to broadcast and it's not what is
happening everywhere in the world.
\_ I do. And EU news makes editorial choices as well.
You seem to prefer those editorial choices and
find them personally preferable to US editorial
choices (in the maintream news media). That is
your personal choice and does not in any way make
EU news superior or more accurate or less biased
than US news. You simply prefer the EU bias over
the US bias. That's all mostly about how they
report the news. As far as your point about certain
stories never getting reported at all, it isn't due
to a grand conspiracy. It is simply because the
average American doesn't give a crap what's going
on in the next county, much less another part of
the world. If it sold ads and newspapers they
would be printing it. They are as you pointed
out earlier corporate controlled and thus have
profit as their primary motivation.
\_ http://home.sprynet.com/~anneled/Defections.html
According to this site the were a lot of China->Taiwan defections
until 1989. What happened after 1989, the Taiwanese start to
shoot down all the defectors? Or did the Chinese government
threatened to kill the family members of the defectors?
\_ A single random plane flying in with the pilot screaming into
his radio on a known frequency, "don't shoot! im defecting!" is
not going to be shot down. Family killed? That's more likely.
\_ "4 July 2003 Two Indonesian F-16s intercepted US Navy F-18s ..."
I think our Top Guns should now learn dog-fighting against our
own fighter jets besides the MiG's.
\_ the US Airforce estimates that in a total combat, the
aircraft attrition rate would be one F22 raptor vs four
F16s. So as long as we own F22s, it's ok.
\_ Note that the F22 also costs about four times the price
of an F16 (well over $100 million a piece).
\_ Intercepted only means they were in the area and threatened
to shoot them down. It doesn't mean there was a dog fight
and the F18's lost.
\_ yeah, it means "we see you". there are no dogfights
unless both guys run out of missles before reinforcements
arrive from the nearest airstrip/carrier. they should
fire before enemies are even in eyesight now.
\_ Taiwan is a dead end. Hence no defection anymore.
\_ A dead end in what sense?
\_ I think that an American did defect to Russia in a plane. Once. I
STFW and couldn't find the story, though. --dim
\_ This sounds vaguely familiar but I can't recall the details
either. I think the Republican Corporate Controlled CIA run
Evil USian Media is to blame for brainwashing us! ;-O |
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