7/21    Hi, I'm clueless. How hard in general is it to get into a "good"
        grad school if you've been working for a while? How important is the
        GPA and such from undergrad, and at what point would other factors
        be more important? (This question is not limited to engineering schls.)
        \_ I know some guy who had like a 2.x GPA and didn't seem too bright
           in the melon get into USC's pharma program. He was an MCB
           major that I got stuck with as a lab partner during my final year.
           I dropped the class because I was doing independent research
           already. USC isn't too shabby in terms of bio, also, I know what
           a certain alum who went to CMU for the PhD program who didn't
           do too great in physics (he used to copy my homework). Apparently
           if you know people I think it's a lot easier to get in, i.e. you
           know research profs well in a certain field. Other fields look
           somewhat like a crapshot. Don't know about now, but since everyone
           is reving to go to grad school maybe you should just stay in the
           sector, being lemming like doesn't usually pay off.
           -williamc
        \_ depends on your definition of "good". Top 10? Top 20? Top 30?
           Check out US World News Report, there's a section on engineering.
           For top 10, you should have AT LEAST 2100 GRE, 3.5 GPA, and at
           least 2 solid recommendations from PROFESSORS. Industry recs
           count very very very very little unless that person does a lot
           of active, quality publications in ACM and other reputable
           places. Note that these requirements are MINIMAL. By the way
           many people are going back to grad school these days and
           competition is pretty fierce. Even if you get into grad school,
           profs treat you like dirt because there are so many grad students.
           For example my school's enrollment increased by at least 20% while
           the TAship and RAship dwindled because my advisor is stupid.
           Hope this helps.                                     -ucla cs guy
                \_ by the way, I just want to take this time to talk about
                   my gimp prof. For 2 quarters he promised RAship for
                   this summer. 2 weeks before summer started he said he
                   ran outa funding and asked me if I wanted to work for him
                   for free. Turns out he spent the money on other postdocs
                   (2 of them are new) and did the same thing to 1/2 of his
                   other students, many of which are now working for him
                   for free because they just want to compete and graduate.
                                        -ucla cs guy
        \_ Just curious, does *anyone* have any _good_ professor experiences?
           \_ yes. lots, but never in engineering.  In engineering, those
              who can do, those who can't teach.
              \_ I've had a great experience with my advisor. In CS, no less.
                 I don't know about teaching, but she's certainly extremely
                 smart, and easy to work with. There certainly are good
                 advisors out there who don't screw you on funding. -chialea
              \_ I've had a great experience with my advisor in EE.  Although
                 my advisor is brilliant, fairly well-known, and well funded,
                 I think the single most important quality which makes him
                 a good advisor is that he genuinly cares about his students.
                 Many advisors view students as employees who work to benefit
                 the themselves and the advisor.  This kind of relationship
                 can work, but ideally you want someone who thinks of you as
                 a protege.  Make sure you talk to a prof's students and get
                 a feel for the prof's personality before signing on.  If you
                 are applying to or starting grad school, I suggest reading
                 a book like _Getting_What_You_Came_For_ instead of learning
                 the pitfalls of grad school the hard way.  Good luck.  -emin
              \_ Ditto the above two posts.  My advisor is great, and there's
                 not a day that goes by when I do not thank the lord that I'm
                 in his group.  No joke.  One of the best advice that I got
                 while choosing grad schools is: choose the people, not the
                 school.  It's the people (prof + students) that you'll have
                 to work with.  The school just goes on your diploma.  One of
                 the best things about Berkeley over other good schools is the
                 web of inter-group/cross-departmental collaborations.  Know
                 what you want and look for it.
                 Regarding applying to grad school, GPA and GRE scores are the
                 basics.  Berkeley requires at least a 3.7 if I remember
                 correctly, and 95 perc+ for GRE.  Not having these is grounds
                 for automatic rejection, unless you're really really good and
                 can prove it with a substantial pub list and glowing recs.
                 Having good grades and good GRE scores, you still need GLOWING
                 recommendations from well-known and respected profs.  Recs
                 from your manager/coworker have next to no weight.  Personal
                 statements rarely make a difference, but bad ones can kill
                 your app.  I'm generalizing a little.  Also, I don't know
                 how things are at other schools, and I don't know about other
                 departments.  But competition is fierce everywhere.
                                                -- alice
              \_ I agree with the sentiment that nice profs are an exception
                 to the rule.  The professors I know are interested in seeing
                 how much they can abuse their grad students with as little
                 money as possible -- to save money for next quarter's more
                 talented recruits (which is fair, in a way, but not what I'd
                 say is "nurturing").  They've also developed an ability of
                 covering their own ass very well.  Professors play a LOT of
                 politicking in their quest to look like the hot new thing,
                 or in trying to continue to look hot.  I'd say if you get
                 a prof like this, it's not much different from working
                 in a company -- except you get paid a lot less, you get a
                 Ph.D. in the end, and you come out cynical since going back
                 to school to learn about interesting things was not what you
                 thought it was.