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| 5/24 |
| 2003/7/3-4 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:28910 Activity:high |
7/3 http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e21/forum.php?postid=3378984&page=1 \_ followup (shortened): http://csua.org/u/3gy \_ Vaguely related--in Germany there is a large problem with "car forgery". Eastern Europeans (mainly Poles) build copies of luxury cars in their garages and sell them at cut (but still high) prices on German car flea markets. It's the ignorant and greedy who get caught by it, but some of the wheels are amazingly well done (while some have ridealong lawnmower engines.) This is pretty amusing: http://www.unf-unf.de/show.php?did=316 -John \_ (very very) long story short: some poor sap flys all the way from Spokane to West Palm Beach to buy a BMW that he thinks is a good deal based on a phone conversation with the seller. He forks over $10K CASH, and when the car breaks down as he's driving it home he finds out its been stolen. what a loser. \_ he doesn't seem that greedy, he just belongs to that weird world of BMW fetishization. the guys starts cleaning the damn thing before he even gets it back to his home state (which I guess was good since it allowed him to see more flaws in the car's story) \_ fuck you. i just wasted an hour at work reading that entertaining story. \_ ditto that. \_ When you at your greediest, you are most vulnerable. Divest yourself of greed and people won't be able to screw you like this. Con artists can also prey on your loneliness, your stupidity, and to a lesser extent, your pity. But greed is definitely the worst. Greed is the most common lever used to pry an idiot away from his money. \_ The buyer didn't strike me as particularly greedy. But I wouldn't fly cross country for a 'good deal,' not when so many would be in California. \_ Some lessons to learn: 1. A fool and his money are soon parted. 2. If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. \_ 3. BMW enthusiasts are idiots even when they're not driving. -tom \_ Most enthusiasts are idiots even when they're not doing something they're enthusiastic about. -John \_ damn it! i agree with tom about something. \_ A stopped clock is right twice a day. \_ Or every few months in this case. \_ Old jungle saying: Its spelled B-M-W but its pronounced IDIOT! \_ Ever own one? If you did you'd see why. I've started doing idiot things like double-parking and cutting people off. It started slowly, but BMWs are FUN TO DRIVE and that leads to a little recklessness. \_ My dad has three. He drives like a world class jerk. The best was when someone in a 3 series tried to pass him in the shoulder and he rolled down his window and shouted "7 is bigger than 3!" (he was driving his 7 series that day) and then proceeded to hog the left lane and the shoulder for the next several miles. I've driven his BMWs and I just don't see it, they drive like almost every other luxury car out there. Personally I think that a STi is much more fun to drive and you can coax it to do lots more things (on and off road) than any BWM. \_ so what "enthusiasts" are not idiots, opinion master? you name it, i can crap on it. whee! |
| 5/24 |
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| bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e21/forum.php?postid=3378984&page=1 Its a good investment, it will be a better investment to put money into than the 320 or 325i. I will look so cool driving this carIm such a good driver. I deserve this machine, this pinnacle of E30 engineering. Really, I was going to let her drive it, really I was, like maybe once in a while. OK, once in a really great while So Im doing all the usual things, reading the Roundel, looking on FleaBay, and all the E30 sites on the net. There are cheaper cars out there, but theyre always modified, have more miles, a lot more miles and I really liked the wheels on this one. I called him and started asking all the usual questions. His name is Francisco Montoya, he works for the NASCAR Technical Institute. They are a Division of the United Technical Institutes Corporation. This guy knows about cars The first thing I asked him was; I bought it to do an M50 motor conversion, but I already have an M5 and a 50s Studebaker street rod and my wife is going to file for divorce if I dont get rid of it. I bought it from a place called The Collection in Miami. Yeah, The Collection, Theyre a big Porsche dealer, they also sell Maserati, Ferrari, Aston Martin and Lotus, and they took it in on trade. The Florida sun down here, paint jobs only last about 10 years Did it need bodywork? No, its a non-smoker car all its life Wow, music to my ears, I havent smoked for 10+ years and I cant stand the smell. The car has been fully checked out by The Collection Compression? Checked, they would have never taken it in on trade if there was something wrong with it. I just changed all the fluids to Redline synthetic and the engine oil has just been changed How about maintenance records? Unfortunately, the owners manual has just been ripped off out of the glove box along with all the maintenance records Noooo, thats a shame, damn thieves I might be able to get the maintenance records from the previous owner, maybe Hows the glass, tires, any curb rash on the wheels, electrics, brakes, battery, dash gauges, cruise control, turn signals, mirrors, wipers/washers, door locks, power window motors, stereo, A/C, steering rack, trans, diff, cooling system, headlights cracked, are they all Hella, missing parts, exhaust, sunroof work right, cracks in the sub frame from heavy use, bumpers, any rust ever, cracks in the dash, OIL LEAKS, noises, etc? EVERYTHING IS GOOD/PERFECT, YOU WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED. Can I drive it back to Washington State, its 3000 miles? Wow, it really sounds good, how come nobodys bought it yet? Man, Id like to get a flight down to buy it, if its as nice as you say it is. When they repainted it did, did they screw up the body, like waves and stuff like that? Clean, the cars not registered because I only drove it home from Miami and never registered it because I dont drive it. Its all stock you know, its very hard to find a car like this thats still all stock and with this low a miles. I didnt know this but its not unusual for automakers to do things like this, even different size rims, like 14/15 front and rear, on semi-racing type cars. Im pretty sure that the factory M3 basketweave wheels are the same width, front and rear. Also these cars have fiberglass front/rear fenders, I didnt really think so but figured, the man owns one and I dont so maybe, just maybe he knows what hes talking about. Semperit Thats kinda different, but theyre German if I recall. Makes sense, even if the car was a repaint, why would somebody take a car this expensive and obviously well cared for to some hack to get it repainted. Somebody probably spent some good money getting done right. Ok, you be sure an let me know if youre planning on going, Ive got lectures to do this week and next week, so I plan on being on the road quite a bit. I start looking for a ticket online, find one, a one way for Saturday the 10th. Its going to be an adventure to remember for a long time, flying down to Florida, the car is in West Palm Beach. I get the Atlas out, I will have to drive up through Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Missouri, Kansas, up through Omaha, Nebraska to Sioux Falls, South Dakota, Wyoming, through the Badlands, through Montana, Idaho and then home. Thats not bad, she said no to spending $13/15k and I agreed with her. I got a flight lined up for Saturday, one way I told her. You better get a round trip just in case the car turns out to have problems. Yeah, youre right but this guys a Field Rep for UTICORP, and he bought the car from a very well known place, The Collection, in Miami. Why would somebody bull$hit me about a car when he knows I have to fly 3000 miles just to look at it. Besides, hes got an M5, a street rod thats won multiple show trophies and a brand new GMC Envoy. All the same you better get a round trip ticket (The voice of reason)She looks one up and finds on thats even cheaper than my one way but its on the 14th, a week away. Hi Francisco, I can get a flight to come down next Wednesday, on the 14th. That wont work, Im leaving for a big NASCAR race on the 14th and I wont be back until the 18th. Im having to tell all these callers to leave their #s because I think Ive got the car sold. What a hell of a nice guy, he doesnt have to do this for me, turning down cash for the car because a guy from 3000 miles away is interested. That evening on the 8th, I booked the flight to Spokane/Phoenix/Ft Lauderdale. You know what $hitty body work looks like right, waves everywhere, you think youre gonna get seasick when you look down the sides of the car. IS THERE ANYTHING LIKE THAT ON THIS CAR, IF THERE IS JUST TELL ME. I dont want to fly 3000 miles to look at something I dont want to buy. Ok I just have to know, I dont want to waste the time and money to do this if theres problems with the car. I booked a flight that gets into Ft Lauderdale at 7:14 pm on Saturday the 10th. Sure, no problem OK, Ill call you back on Friday to confirm that its a GO. If some guy was waving money in your face I wouldnt blame you for taking it OK, thanks for doing that and Ill see you at 7:14 tomorrow in Ft Lauderdale. Packed my bag, went through my $2/3k Snap-on, MAC, PROTO super deluxe trunk tool kit, pulled out a few essentials, the Bentley, my Fluke, my MAC racing tire gauge and packed a little tool set for the road. I was thinking I sure hope the airport security doesnt freak out over this or just steal my tools. I couldnt even get to sleep that night, I kept having nightmares of paint all over the trim, runs, bad bodywork, cracks in the bondo, rips in the seats, clunky old engine in a car with the odometer rolled back 100k miles. Remember what he told you, NO disappointments, relax, this guy teaches automotive. PART II Got up at 4:30, Andrea drove me to the airport in the 325i, said goodbye, got on the plane, took off. Talking to a guy about eBay on the way to Phoenix, Yeah, I told him, I wouldnt buy a toothbrush on there, no Siree. A guy I know on Timezone just got burned on a fake Rolex Daytona for $7500, eBay didnt even careThis $hit happens all the time Im going to Florida to buy me a car, from a reputable seller, not one of them eBay crooks. This guys got a pedigree, I shoulda asked him Hey man, you one of them Montoyas thats related to Juan Pablo Montoya? Im gonna own me a sweet little ol M3 that was actually owned by one of the Montoyas, plus this guys with NASCAR too, Wahoo. Gentlemen, start your engines Im quite driver myself ya know. Well, I can put some of that talent to good use driving back home, 3000 miles, I can do it in about three days, I reckon (In your dreams cowboy). Well I finally started coming down from the coffee, landed in Ft Lauderdale. Hotter than blazes, I was standing on the curb waiting for Montoya, I started to realize that I was wet, like I just got out of the shower. Thats what the air feels like down there, hot, humid, and hard to breathe. There are tolls everywhere but hes got one of them things on his windshield where you can just go right on through at 60 and it charges your credit card. In the M5 though, the Envoy's my wifes rig, gotta have that Valentine One. Its the best Ive ever used $hit, I dont even own a radar detector. The kinda place where all the locals ... |
| csua.org/u/3gy -> bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e21/forum.php?postid=3379064&page=1 Remainder (6520 views) Message: This piece of human waste has not only robbed me of an extremely large sum of money, he has cost me an additional $2000 in expenses and wrecked my plans of driving across the US. Something I havent done since I was a kid when we moved from Virginia out here and something that I have never done on my own. It would have been a fantastic trip in a red M3 in the springtime. Im without transportation now and I walk to Trees Wings for dinner and to get a double order of Cajun and Super hot wings to take home for Andrea. I think its called Trees because of the huge Banyan trees in the parking lot. Andrea picks me up at the airport, man, am I glad to see her. I was starting to worry about her, all alone in the house. Its in the 50s here and I shiver my way through the next few days and take care of my sunburn. The wings and seashells are a big hit, although on the expensive sideIm in touch with UTI for the next few days, Fax them some info/details, theyve got their own attorneys involved Finally I get a phone call from Jerry Ellner at UTI. He tells me that in the event that Montoyas charged with criminal wrongdoing, they will fire him instantly and that he knows that. He also tells me that he strongly recommended to Montoya that he returns my money. He also informed me that Jeff Mickey, the Vice-President of UTI, a 200 million dollar a year company got personally involved and that he also strongly recommended to Montoya that he reimburse me for the car. You cant ask for anymore than that, I spoke to Ellner for a while about all the BMWs and Porsche 911s that he had owned, upstanding guy, very concerned about his companys image, these guys are all gearheads too, the kind of people that I can relate to better than anybody else. What I dont understand is, if Montoya bought the car from dealer in Miami, how come he doesnt go back to that guy all pi$$ed off and raise hell, Hey give me my money back on this car, plus you guys sold me a stolen car and it caused me a lot of trouble etc, etc. I finally get a hold of a detective Rodriguez in Miami and fill him in on the details. Theyre in Opa Locka, south of Miami, in an area the auto theft detective is very familiar with. Hes got somebody on it and hes going to order a body file on the 89 and the stolen car and get down to the bottom of it. He tells me I hate for you to find out this way, but Florida leads the nation in this kind of crime. I start bugging Auto trader also, and through some slight trickery found out that Montoya started the ad April 11th, 2003. His M5 started running in there at the same time and hasnt sold yet. Its sounded like $hit when he backed it out of the driveway one day and the body looked like it was massaged by the same professionals who did the M3. It figures he lied to me about the ad just coming out, he lied to me about holding the car for me and the other buyers, after a month in the Auto Trader, there were no other buyers. Thats when I started posting the ads on the BMW forums trying to find other people who had talked to him or looked at the car. No luck there so far or with the Everglades chapter of the BMWCCA, although they told me that no one in their club knows him and that he is not related to Juan Pablo Montoya, and he is not a BMWCCA member either. I decided to post an online ad in Auto Trader, I made the ad look just like his, same description and price, with the words, Help, I bought a stolen car. Anyone who looked at the car or talked to the seller please get a hold of me I just talked to a very nice gal, Cecilia about updating the wording on the ad a couple days ago and she was kinda upset Say, whats going on with this ad She asks? A guy called yesterday, he was yelling and saying we need to stop running the ad, that this is in court right now, bla, bla, bla Ahhh, Montoya. Omygod, she says, she wants me to change my ad to, Warning, this guy sells stolen cars I get a little laugh out of that and the she actually starts to give me legal advice, and its actually pretty damn good stuff. The Auto trader ad paid off, I start getting phone calls. On the 2nd of June I get a message from Greg about his ordeal with the Montoya and the car, he wants me to call him. His story confirmed everything that I suspected about Montoyas prior knowledge of the cars problems. He blatantly lied to me on the phone in order to lure me down to Florida and sell me a very questionable, and in fact, stolen car. I know now for a fact that this man is a liar, and a crook. What a coincidence, we only live 300 miles from each other. He called on the M3 back in April, got the same story I did, the same tissue of lies. Amazingly enough, Montoya took him to the Royal Inn also, and he stayed in the very same room I did, Room 131, overlooking the pool. With Montoyas UTI credentials and the story about The Collection, he had not bothered to do a CARFAX either. He checked the car out, drove it around the block, (The Montoya no license plate maneuver). Montoya was opposed to the idea bank financing and discouraged him from running a CARFAX. Overall the car was nice, so he wrote Montoya a check for $10,500 and flew back home. It was only because one of his friends in Seattle pestered him about it that he did a CARFAX on the M3. He immediately called Montoya, got his wife on the phone and told her what was going on. She didnt understand, so he explained it to her in these terms. I dont want the car, its junk, Ive already contacted my attorney, and if you even try to cash that check, I will sue you. Now if youre selling a legitimate car, have it sold, the money in your hand and the buyer suddenly backs out and threatens lawsuit, you would think that the seller would be in a little bit of a shock and would at the very least try to find out what the problem is. The amazing thing is that he never got as much as one phone call from Montoya regarding the car and his check for $10,500. Greg mentioned having to close his bank account to protect himself because Montoya still has his check with all of the personal information on it. I myself at one point during my stay at the Royal Inn suddenly got very spooked about this guy and went to the front desk with a story about inoperative A/C in order to change rooms. I then had to make sure that they didnt tell anybody which room I was in. I had started to worry that he might have me killed in the middle of the night in order to get rid of me and keep the money. For all I know, he had other keys to the car and could have very easily just taken it back and called Exceptional Inc. Greg is willing to fly to Florida to testify on my behalf against Montoya. He gave up on buying an M3 and bought a 90s Corvette instead. He is at this time preparing what will be a notarized statement for me and making copies of all of the receipts for the expense that he incurred as a result of this fraudulent seller. I'm in the process of getting all the documents together I can, and I'm also preparing a statement describing what happened when I visited Francisco. I broke down and bought a 1991 Corvette convertible 6-speed. It's a little different, but I think it will be a nice weekend cruiser. Time to kick some @ss (nt) - JMD540iS 2003-06-12 10:44:31 (54 views) = 245 IS THIS A PIC OF MONTOYA ? I'm still willing to be friends - beemrmax 2003-06-12 19:29:13 (484 views) @ 255 Actually there are two phone #s - Hmmm 2003-06-12 22:07:40 (197 views) - 256 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? Remainder (pic) - beemrmax 2003-06-11 11:10:26 (6520 views) * 276 Re: THE M3 RIPOFF. Remainder (url) - FNG 2003-07-27 03:52:42 (208 views) * 277 Re: THE M3 RIPOFF. Miller 2003-07-17 19:23:29 (132 views) * 278 Re: THE M3 RIPOFF. Remainder - ch 2003-07-13 01:33:41 (104 views) * 279 Re: THE M3 RIPOFF. Remainder - morbo 2003-07-08 19:58:31 (59 views) * 280 In the Washington, DC area now! Remainder - Gouki240S14 2003-06-26 14:45:17 (40 views) * 282 Holy ****. Remainder - boxster2001_aero 2003-06-21 11:24:51 (48 views) * 290 Re: THE M3 RIPOFF. Remainder - le0 2003-06-20 15:09:51 (28 views) * 291 What a f#@! Remainder - REG-UL8 2003-06-19 18:59:33 (40 views) * 293 Re: THE M3 RIPOFF. Remainder - kostonm... |
| www.unf-unf.de/show.php?did=316 References 1. |