Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 28152
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2003/4/17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28152 Activity:high
4/16    I actually like the idea, as long as it apply to all nations in
        the middle east
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2955161.stm
        \_ Cool so 150 million screaming arabs with boards with nails in
           them can push the fuckin jews into the sea.  Good plan, well
           thought out, especially considering which "side" will be under
           more intense scrutiny to comply.  Good nukes make good neighbors,
           at least they have so far.  -John
           \_ I think the situation has become a lot more complicated than
              "Israel has nukes".   Face it, if anyone attacked Israel the
              US would invade in days.  This is no longer the 60s.
              \_ So you think it's in Israel's best interests to be completely
                 dependent on the US's good will for their survival?  That's
                 totally insane.  What happens when the anti-Israel nutheads
                 eventually get elected and leave them to rot?  "Oh, oops,
                 sorry, you should've had your own nukes!"  Especially since
                 the US has such a shitty record of keeping promises.
           \_ Isreal was able to defend itself against its neighbors three
              times without the use of nukes.
              \_ No.  The last time things got tense and they let everyone
                 know they were ready to do it.  And no one has tried again
                 since, at the army level.  BTW, Israel hasn't even admitted
                 they have any, let alone 1000+.  They won't give em up.
              \_ And it was *very* *very* close to getting wiped out twice.
                 Go pick up a book on military history.  You'll note no one
                 has launched a full scale invasion since the time they're
                 believed to have developed nukes?  Think about it.  If it
                 was the other way around you *know* Israel would have already
                 been nuked in a first strike.  You're either naive or
                 something unspeakable worse.
                 \_ I don't think anyone would launch a first strike nuke
                    attack on Israel (or Germany, or Japan...), because
                    the consenquence would be a serious beatdown from the US.
                    \_ Any nation that depends on another for it's survival is
                       already doomed.
                       \_ "No man is an island"
                    \_ Nuking Isreal doesn't make any sense for the Arabs;
                       the reason they hate Isreal is it's occupying lands
                       they view as sacred.  -tom
                 \_ Has Isreal ever even lost a battle against the Arabs?
                    \_ obviously you skipped Seder last night.
                 \_ No one has launched a full scale invasion of Israel
                    since they all got their asses handed to them and
                    Israel took over the West Bank and a chunk of Egypt
                    (subsequently returned).  Do not confuse causality
                    with circumstance.
                    \_ Like getting their asses handed to them the first two
                       times made a difference?  No.  That's why there were
                       three attacks.  There hasn't been one since '73 not
                       because the Arabs might get crushed again (we know this
                       because as stated it happened *3* times) but because of
                       the only change in the status quo, namely Israel has
                       the bomb.
                       \_ Check out the Federation of American Scientists:
                          http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke
                          According to this, Israel had nukes *before* the
                          1973 attack, and that did not deter it.  After
                          1973, the economy and the politics of the region
                          changed, and the annihilation of Israel took a
                          backseat.  After Egypt and Israel signed a peace
                          treaty, invasion became a non-issue: Syria, Jordan,
                          and Lebanon are too weak to force the issue, and
                          Saudi Arabia has its own issues to work out.
                    \_ What is "unspeakable worse" in your worldview?
                       Just curious.
2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/24    

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news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2955161.stm
Syria - the only Arab nation on the Security Council - urged the US to back the resolution which it said was intended to promote peace and stability in the Middle East. Correspondents say that the proposed resolution is aimed at focusing attention on Israel, which is believed to have a nuclear capability, and to push the US, Israel's closest ally, into acknowledging this. After a closed Security Council meeting, US Ambassador John Negroponte repeated that his country was concerned about "Syria's own weapons of mass destruction". The resolution - backed by most Arab countries - is to be considered on Thursday by experts from member nations of the Security Council before being put to the vote. Weapons-free zones Syria's draft text seeks a central role for the Council in countering the spread of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons in the region. Finding his father's capacity to duck and weave successfully to avoid being crushed is his Syrian President Bashar al-Assad major challenge in the weeks ahead Gerald Butt, Middle East analyst 56 Syrian president faces tough test It calls on all the countries in the Middle East to ratify a series of arms control treaties, including the 1993 Chemical Weapons Convention. Israel has signed the convention but never ratified it, while Syria has neither signed nor ratified it. Syria's UN Ambassador, Mikhail Wehbe, said Syria would ratify it if all other governments in the region did so. He added that this would make it difficult for terrorists to get their hands on such weapons. There are currently five nuclear-free zones in the world, and only one WMD-free zone - this includes Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay. US accusations Analysts say the Syrian draft has little chances of being passed by the Council. NUCLEAR-FREE ZONES 33 states in Latin America and the Caribbean 13 countries in the South Pacific 10 states in the South-East Asian area 45 nations in Africa (awaiting ratification) Mongolia Mr Negroponte said any country could propose a resolution for consideration, but that did not mean the US was prepared to adopt it. The developments follow United States allegations that Syria has chemical weapons, prompting fears that it may be next in line for military action. Washington has also accused Damascus of harbouring members of Saddam Hussein's regime after the invasion of Iraq. On Wednesday, US officials said they believed a senior member of Iraq's intelligence service Farouq Hijazi had flown to Syria the previous day from Tunisia, where he held the post of Iraqi ambassador. He is believed to have been director of external operations for Iraqi intelligence in the early 1990s, at the time of an alleged Iraqi plot to assassinate President George W Bush's father, when he was himself president, during a visit to Kuwait. Mr Wehbe said it was "very clear to everybody" that the US accusations aimed to shift attention from the US-led invasion of Iraq and "the Israeli killing of the Palestinian people". Go SEE ALSO: 59 Syrian president faces tough test 16 Apr 03 | Middle East 60 World media ask: Why Syria?
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www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke -> fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/
Consequently, Israel has been actively investigating the nuclear option from its earliest days. In 1949, HEMED GIMMEL a special unit of the IDF's Science Corps, began a two-year geological survey of the Negev desert with an eye toward the discovery of uranium reserves. Although no significant sources of uranium were found, recoverable amounts were located in phosphate deposits. The program took another step forward with the creation of the Israel Atomic Energy Commission (IAEC) in 1952. Under Bergmann, the line between the IAEC and EMET blurred to the point that Machon 4 functioned essentially as the chief laboratory for the IAEC. By 1953, Machon 4 had not only perfected a process for extracting the uranium found in the Negev, but had also developed a new method of producing heavy water, providing Israel with an indigenous capability to produce some of the most important nuclear materials. For reactor design and construction, Israel sought the assistance of France. Nuclear cooperation between the two nations dates back as far as early 1950's, when construction began on France's 40MWt heavy water reactor and a chemical reprocessing plant at Marcoule. France was a natural partner for Israel and both governments saw an independent nuclear option as a means by which they could maintain a degree of autonomy in the bipolar environment of the cold war. In the fall of 1956, France agreed to provide Israel with an 18 MWt research reactor. However, the onset of the Suez Crisis a few weeks later changed the situation dramatically. Following Egypt's closure of the Suez Canal in July, France and Britain had agreed with Israel that the latter should provoke a war with Egypt to provide the European nations with the pretext to send in their troops as peacekeepers to occupy and reopen the canal zone. In the wake of the Suez Crisis, the Soviet Union made a thinly veiled threat against the three nations. This episode not only enhanced the Israeli view that an independent nuclear capability was needed to prevent reliance on potentially unreliable allies, but also led to a sense of debt among French leaders that they had failed to fulfill commitments made to a partner. French premier Guy Mollet is even quoted as saying privately that France "owed" the bomb to Israel. On 3 October 1957, France and Israel signed a revised agreement calling for France to build a 24 MWt reactor (although the cooling systems and waste facilities were designed to handle three times that power) and, in protocols that were not committed to paper, a chemical reprocessing plant. This complex was constructed in secret, and outside the IAEA inspection regime, by French and Israeli technicians at Dimona, in the Negev desert under the leadership of Col. Both the scale of the project and the secrecy involved made the construction of Dimona a massive undertaking. A new intelligence agency, the Office of Science Liasons,(LEKEM) was created to provide security and intelligence for the project. At the height construction, some 1,500 Israelis some French workers were employed building Dimona. To maintain secrecy, French customs officials were told that the largest of the reactor components, such as the reactor tank, were part of a desalinization plant bound for Latin America. In addition, after buying heavy water from Norway on the condition that it not be transferred to a third country, the French Air Force secretly flew as much as four tons of the substance to Israel. Trouble arose in May 1960, when France began to pressure Israel to make the project public and to submit to international inspections of the site, threatening to withhold the reactor fuel unless they did. President de Gaulle was concerned that the inevitable scandal following any revelations about French assistance with the project, especially the chemical reprocessing plant, would have negative repercussions for France's international position, already on shaky ground because of its war in Algeria. At a subsequent meeting with Ben-Gurion, de Gaulle offered to sell Israel fighter aircraft in exchange for stopping work on the reprocessing plant, and came away from the meeting convinced that the matter was closed. Over the next few months, Israel worked out a compromise. France would supply the uranium and components already placed on order and would not insist on international inspections. In return, Israel would assure France that they had no intention of making atomic weapons, would not reprocess any plutonium, and would reveal the existence of the reactor, which would be completed without French assistance. In reality, not much changed - French contractors finished work on the reactor and reprocessing plant, uranium fuel was delivered and the reactor went critical in 1964. The United States first became aware of Dimona's existence after U-2 overflights in 1958 captured the facility's construction, but it was not identified as a nuclear site until two years later. As early as 8 December 1960, the CIA issued a report outlining Dimona's implications for nuclear proliferation, and the CIA station in Tel Aviv had determined by the mid-1960s that the Israeli nuclear weapons program was an established and irreversible fact. United States inspectors visited Dimona seven times during the 1960s, but they were unable to obtain an accurate picture of the activities carried out there, largely due to tight Israeli control over the timing and agenda of the visits. The Israelis went so far as to install false control room panels and to brick over elevators and hallways that accessed certain areas of the facility. The inspectors were able to report that there was no clear scientific research or civilian nuclear power program justifying such a large reactor - circumstantial evidence of the Israeli bomb program - but found no evidence of "weapons related activities" such as the existence of a plutonium reprocessing plant. Although the United States government did not encourage or approve of the Israeli nuclear program, it also did nothing to stop it. Walworth Barbour, US ambassador to Israel from 1961-73, the bomb program's crucial years, primarily saw his job as being to insulate the President from facts which might compel him to act on the nuclear issue, alledgedly saying at one point that "The President did not send me there to give him problems. Even when Barbour did authorize forwarding information, as he did in 1966 when embassy staff learned that Israel was beginning to put nuclear warheads in missiles, the message seemed to disappear into the bureaucracy and was never acted upon. In early 1968, the CIA issued a report concluding that Israel had successfully started production of uclear weapons. This estimate, however, was based on an informal conversation between Carl Duckett, head of the CIA's Office of Science and Technology, and Edward Teller, father of the hydrogen bomb. Teller said that, based on conversations with friends in the Israeli scientific and defense establishment, he had concluded that Israel was capable of building the bomb, and that the CIA should not wait for an Israeli test to make a final assessment because that test would never be carried out. CIA estimates of the Israeli arsenal's size did not improve with time. In 1974, Duckett estimated that Israel had between ten and twenty nuclear weapons. The upper bound was derived from CIA speculation regarding the number of possible Israeli targets, and not from any specific intelligence. Because this target list was presumed to be relatively static, this remained the official American estimate until the early 1980s. The actual size and composition of Israel's nuclear stockpile is uncertain, and is the subject of various estimates and reports. It is widely reported that Israel had two bombs in 1967, and that Prime Minister Eshkol ordered them armed in Israel's first nuclear alert during the Six-Day War. It is also reported that, fearing defeat in the October 1973 Yom Kippur War, the Israelis assembled 13 twenty-kiloton atomic bombs. Israel could potentially have produced a few dozen nuclear warheads in the period 1970-1980, and might have possessed 100 to 200 warheads b...