Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 28021
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2025/04/04 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
4/4     

2003/4/7 [Recreation/Dating] UID:28021 Activity:nil
4/5     In today's society, how do Asians and "Americans" view dating
         / sex / marriages / etc. between a couple with the same last
        name?  This question is directed at a couple who are not known
        to be related by blood by at least three generations and that
        along the line, no sons took on the mothers' last names to
        preserve their names.
        \_ Actually, I've never given any thought to that.  As a white
           guy, I'd probably consider having the same last name as a
           small plus-- no dealing with a name change after marriage.
           Anyway, aren't there tests you're supposed to take prior to
           marriage to check that sort of thing out?
           \_ Blood test are not required in every state. And one does
              not have to be married to beget children.
        \_ Coincidence.
        \_ They should immediately break up to save themselves from a
           miserable and painful future.
        \_ with general apathy, as usual.  "who cares?"
        \_ For Chinese, at least, having same lastname is rather
           common. For those who are more traditional, we tend to ask
           where is their ancestorial home down to the county level.
           The general rule of thumb is that if two are from same
           ancestorial home and having same lastname, then, there
           might be a concern. For the not-so-traditional minded, they
           probably have sex anyway.
        \_ "2 Wongs make it white".
            \_ you forget the word "can"
               \- um assuming this is a serious question: in theory
                  in hinduism, people with certain last names [like
                  banerjee] cannot get married to one another because
                  all banerjees are of the same "gotra" [which roughly
                  means they are all descended from the same relig
                  figure] however some last names are really titles
                  and dont imply family relations [like the name
                  "ray"]. on the other hand in this day an age there
                  is a way to finesse this/loophole to get around
                  this. --psb
                  \_ Two people from the same Gothra aren't necessarily
                     related. There is some historical evidence that
                     implies that the term is derived from the ancient
                     practice of requiring students to pay teachers in
                     cattle (go). Students who had the same teachers
                     ended up in the same gothra.
                     \- ok i should have qualified this a little bit.
                        the bengal kulin system is different from the
                        caste system in other parts of india [YMWTS:
                        "Bangalir Itihas", Nirarranjan Ray]. for at
                        least sandilya gothra and bharadvarja gotra
                        they need to take advantage of some loophole
                        due to the relationship theory. i am not sure
                        in what context and sense you offer your
                        comments so i am unable tocomment further. --psb
                           \_ I was merely clarifying the point
                              that gothra and lastname do not
                              imply genetic relationships in
                              all parts of India even for
                              Brahmins (ex. people converted
                              by Ramanuja were assigned gothra's
                              if they did not already have one)
                        \_ sooo, uh... does anyone have a sendmail question?
                           \- indian name/caste/genealogy make sendmail
                              look simple. try to follow an "explanation" [sic]
                              like this http://tanmoy.tripod.com/tradition
2025/04/04 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
4/4     

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Cache (4070 bytes)
tanmoy.tripod.com/tradition -> tanmoy.tripod.com/tradition/
Other calculations give his time to be between 964 AD and 1000 AD; BhRgu had two sons: cyavana and bhArgava -> shenakhaNDa -> mahAvedI -> hari. At that time, tradition has it, there were 750 families of Brahmins in all of Bengal. A 19 sketch of the political situation in north India around that time is available. The origin myths of the kAYastha non-brahmins are closely related: The brahmins mentioned above brought with them: marakanda ghoSa of saukAlIna gotra, virATa guha of kAshyapa gotra, dasharatha basu of gautama gotra, kAlidasa mitra of vishvAmitra gotra and puruSottama datta of maudgalya gotra. Marriage rules also forced the eldest son of a kulina to marry a kulina of the same rank, and the maulika daughters were required to marry kulinas. I (western) brahmins in bengal are said to be descended from dakSa, srIharSa, bhaTTanArAYaNa, vedagarbha, and chhAndara, and the 25 vArendrI (northern) brahmins from their brothers: suSeNa, gautama, nArAYaNa bhaTTa (who maybe identical to bhaTTanArAYaNa), parAshara, and dharAdhara respectively. I/vArendrI split took place during 26 bhUshUra's time, others claim that there were two kings varendra and pradyumna following AdishUra, and that is when the division took place. I Brahmins The rule of the Senas saw a marked revival of the 27 caste system and other aspects of brahminical hinduism. He is supposed to have been the seventh generation down from 30 AdishUra's daughter's son. He was distressed by the lack of proper attitudes amongst the 31 Brahmin 32 Hindus in Bengal. The other descendant of shrIdhara kAJjilAla who became 47 kulina was kutUhala. At this time, these five ancestors were supposed to have become 1100 families of brahmins in Bengal. Note that assuming the traditional dating, the number of years per generation turns out to be 11-13 for the line of shrIharSa, 15-16 for the line of maheshvara, 17-19 for the line of dakSa and vedagarbha, and 38 for the line of chAndara. Both the minimum and maximum of these numbers is a bit extreme, the former being unbelievable. See the main genealogy page for more on the 49 comparison between history and tradition. In fact, the traditional stories of the rise of kulinism are very 50 complicated. In short, among the brahmins, 6 descendants of AdivarAha vandya, 5 of sulocana caTTa, 2 of dhAndu mukhaTi, 1 of surabhi ghoSAla, 1 of dhIra putituNda, 2 of shrIdhara kAJjilAla, 1 of hala gAGgulI and 1 of rAjyadhara kundalAla were the 19 main kulina; ArI=pARi, ravi mahintA, shaGkara pipalAi, an coTakhaNDI guNAkara were the 14 subordinate kulinas. But six of their descendants: ThoTha and dAYI, sons of kolAhala mukho, vaSiSTha mukho, son of shaGkara, kuvera, son of dharmmAMshu vandyo, cakrapANi, son of mahAdeva and kulabhUSaNa, son of vidyanAtha vandyo did not follow the marriage rules and became vaMshaja. In addition 22 people accepted gifts from shudras and became varakulina, and were later counted as vaMshaja under king 51 danauja mAdhava. The maintainance of kulinism required following 52 strict marriage rules: all brahmins in Bengal divided into 36 53 mels which are endogamous units (sometimes called thAk), and only people who were the same number of generations down from the people belonging to the original list could marry each other. This lead to these families maintaining genealogical trees: it may be the beginning of large scale genealogical record in Bengal (Normally, in marriage rituals, seven generations along the male line of the father's side, and five along the male line on the mother's side were necessary). The descendants of nArAYaNa bhaTTa (who might be identical to 56 bhaTTanArAYaNa) are described 57 here. The descendants of suSeNa, brother of 58 dakSa, are described 59 here. The descendants of dharAdhara, brother of 60 chAndara, are described 61 here. These also had a division into kulina and non-kulina ( 63 kApa). The similarities with AdishUra 66 bringing five brahmins is probably not a coincidence. These vaidika brahmins are classified into pAshcAtya (western) and dAkSiNAtya (southern) categories.