Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 27963
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2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

2003/4/3-4 [Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:27963 Activity:very high
4/2     All these discussion regards to weapon of mass destruction.
        Did we use Sarin gas during the Vietnam War?
        \_ no, we used agent orange.  Fucked up the jungle good. And our
           own soldiers.
        \_ all signs point to maybe
        \_ No.  Peter Arnett got busted and fired for saying so in 1998 with
           zero proof and CNN retracted the whole story.  The guy has quite a
           journalistic record of excellence.
           \_ "Zero proof"? How about the testimony of multiple sources,
              including two military officers? The only reason CNN retracted
              the story was political pressure.
              \_ bullshit.  URL.  2 military officers?  The ones he was
                 quoting that he hadn't even met?  Or maybe it was the
                 American officer he claimed got gassed and was dead yet
                 was there in studio 25+ years later to confront him with
                 his own lies?  You're fucking nuts or intentionally ignorant.
                 Or maybe I just got trolled... damn.  Trolled again.
                 \_ http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/tailwind_army.html
                    We certainly used some kind of gas stronger than
                    CS. Perhpas not Sarin, but the Army will not admit
                    to what exactly it was.
              \_ exactly.  the point is, we used weapon of mass destruction,
                 and we are not particularly proud of it (remember NY
                 Metro Museum wanted to do a exibition on 50 annualversiry
                 of Hiroshima, but dropped the idea because political
                 pressure?).  Japan used chemical / biological weapon
                 at a scale which makes Iraq looks like a child play,
                 and we forgive them.  If we take out this issue of
                 WMD, what else you can think of to support US's war
                 against Iraq?
                 \_ exactly not.  we didn't use nerve gas in vietnam and you
                    have zero proof of it anywhere.
                 \_ Governments in Japan and Germany are not the same as
                    those in power during WW2.  We did not forgive those
                    war-time goverments; we hanged them.
                    \_ go back to your history book.  We forgave Japan.
                       \_ Give me one source.
                          _/ (reformatted to fit)
                    \_ Emperor Shoowa stayed in throne until 1989.
                       \_ General Hideki Tojo danced at the end of a rope
                          in 1948 after an extensive trial that laid all
                          blame at his feet.
                       \_ On a powerless throne because it was easier than
                          losing a half million more people on both sides
                          doing an ugly mainland invasion.
                 \_ Unit 731 of Japan: http://csua.org/u/c3e
                 \_ "JAPAN ADMITS DISSECTING WW-II POWs"
                    <DEAD>www.ipsystems.com/powmia/unit-731.html<DEAD>
                    "The prisoners were eight American airmen ...... torn apart
                    organ by organ while they were still alive."
                    \_ And?  Never doubted the claim, just the forgiveness.
                        \_ Don't forget they also ate their POWs,
                           including Aussies and Americans.
                           \_ They were hungry.  Have you no compassion??
        We forgave them after we hanged a bunch of them.  -John
        \_ We placed blame on certain people and hanged those people. This
           does not imply forgiveness; it implies assigning singular blame
           and punishment for crimes committed on behalf of a nation.
        \_ And after we demilitarized them and after we
        dismantled their government and after we sort
        occupied their country and after we nuked two
        of their cities....
        \_ Yup.  You want a job done right the first
           time around.  In the case of the Germans,
           we didn't.  What's all this about nukes
           anyway?  We haven't nuked anyone in years.
           Nor have the Israelis or the Brits or the
           French or even the Rooskies.  Nukes all
           around!
                \_ not if some giant fuckheads in the Pentagon
                   and Congress have their way with implementing
                   small scale nukes.  I hate everyone right now.
                 \_ Because he's there. Reason enough.
                \_ Who let the Jews get nukes?!
                   \_ Clinton, who else?! What do you think that Monica
                      Lewinsky was really looking for in Billy's pants?
        \_ Biological and chemical warfare covers more than what most people
           think (ie. death by disease or exposure to toxin). In Vietnam,
           Agent Orange was used, but mostly as a biological warfare tool.
           The chem part was "accidental" or unintended. The bio part was to
           remove jungle and destroy crops. Starvation is bio-warfare. The
           attacks GWI and GWII vs. water delivery and treatment sites, while
           \_ ageng 0 was a weed killer for jungles to remove enemy cover
           called infrastructure attacks, are biological in nature. It can
           be argued that while not using a WMD, the US is using biowarfare.
           \_ Then can I also say shooting an enemy with a gun is biowarfare,
              since it stops his biological function?
              \_ Hell, is feeding someone Mexican food biological warfare?
                 How about milk if you're lactose intolerant?
           \_ Agent O was not to destroy crops.  Sheesh.  It's easier and
              cheaper to kill peasants if you want to stave out the country.
           \_ agent 0 was a weed killer for jungles to remove enemy cover
2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

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www.defenselink.mil/pubs/tailwind_army.html
This report provides the results of the Department of the Army's review into allegations that Sarin Nerve gas was used during Operation TAILWIND. Additionally, there is no evidence that Sarin nerve gas was stored by the Army in Vietnam, Laos, or Thailand. The Department of the Army's review into the alleged use of Sarin Nerve gas during Operation TAILWIND focused on three specific research efforts. First, we conducted a search for targeted documents which relate to the use of Sarin during Operation TAILWIND. We searched in the National Archives' Washington National Record Center and within the Army organizations which could be expected to have been involved in any such use of Sarin during Operation TAILWIND. These searches revealed that there are no existing documents which indicate that the Department of the Army participated in the use of Sarin during Operation TAILWIND. The Army Declassification Agency did a search of their database using eighteen specific keywords (listed on page 2 of their report, see tab entitled Archives Search). The search identified 132 folders which required additional review. Of these, 130 were at the National Archive's Washington National Record Center (WNRC) (located in Suitland MD) and 2 rolls of microfilm which are at the Military History Institute (MHI) at Carlisle Barracks (Carlisle, PA). This in-depth review of the contents of each folder and microfilm was NEGATIVE for Operation TAILWIND information. The Technology Management Office within the Office of the Chief of Staff, Army released a message to all Army organizations which could be expected to have documentary evidence of any use of Sarin during Operation TAILWIND. Each organi-zation was tasked to review their current files area and records holding areas, for all classified and unclassified documents that reference Sarin or TAILWIND during the period 1 Jan 70 and 31 Dec 75. This search resulted in four organizations reporting information pertaining to Sarin - none of which was related to Operation TAILWIND. Army Criminal Investigation Command National Guard Bureau Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations and Plans Deputy Chief of Staff for Logistics Deputy Chief of Staff for Personnel Center for Military History The Army Judge Advocate General The Army Inspector General The Army Surgeon General Office of the Secretary of the Army Program Manager, Chemical Demilitarization Office TAB A contains the results of document searches directed by the Technology Management Office and the Army Declassification Activity. Second, the Center for Military History telephonically interviewed six of seven individuals identified as possibly having firsthand knowledge of Operation TAILWIND and, thus, any use of Sarin Nerve gas. SGT Jay Graves declined to be interviewed, but provided a statement to the Special Forces Association. None of the interviewees had personal knowledge of the use of Sarin or any lethal chemical agent during Operation TAILWIND. All stated that the purpose of the mission was to attack installations on the Ho Chi Minh trail and create a diversion for another operation. Adair one of the individuals interviewed also stated that there was no mention before or after the mission about defectors or Caucasians in the area of operations. Adair himself saw no Caucasians during the operation except his fellow soldiers. His mask had a bullet through the filter and when he breathed the gas, "I started throwing up, (and) fell to the ground in convulsions. Each interview attempted to gain answers to the following: Document any information regarding the use of lethal chemical munitions in Vietnam. Identify the exact storage location (base and country) of any lethal chemical munitions known by the interviewee. Identify the authority empowered to authorize the tactical use of lethal chemical munitions in support of Special Operations Group (SOG) missions. Identify the name and role of any soldier who might have additional information regarding Operation TAILWIND. The following lists the individuals who were interviewed: Individuals interviewed: Name Identified as a result of SGT Minton, FNU Provided FAC audio tape from SOCOM archives MSG Adair, Morris N. From USARV list of awarded individuals SGT Young, David L. From USARV list of awarded individuals WO1 Watson, William D. Referral SGT Schmidt, Craig Early Bird Article SGT Hagen, Michael E. Third, the Deputy Chief of Staff for Logistics tasked the Army Materiel Command to provide answers to specific questions raised during internal DoD/Army discussions. We know that during the timeframe of Operation TAILWIND, the Army had weapons containing lethal chemical agents stored within the continental United States and in Okinawa. There is no evidence that any lethal chemical agents were released for employment during the time of Operation TAILWIND. Following are the specific research questions: What was the quantity of Sarin the US Army controlled then and now? Where were lethal chemical munitions stored during the time of the operation? Who had authority to issue lethal chemical agents from the storage sites? TAB C contains the results of the research and the Army documents tasking the research. The Army researched additional issues which arose while developing this report. The research revealed that the shipping labels do not conform with marking requirements in place at the time of Operation TAILWIND, for ammunition con-taining lethal chemical agents. Thus, the presence of the shipping label does not indi-cate a presence of Sarin. The Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff for Personnel, DA, orchestrated research to determine which DoD agency was the executive agent for lethal chem-ical agents, and who had command and control of the lethal agents stored in Okinawa during the timeframe of Operation TAILWIND. The Center for Military History interviewed MG (Ret) John Hayes, the former Commander, 2^nd Logistics Command, Okinawa, where Sarin was stored during the timeframe of Operation TAILWIND. MG Hayes had command and control of the Sarin stockpile in Okinawa during TAILWIND. TAB F contains the interview notes of MG(Ret) Hayes and other related documents. It cost the Department of the Army approximately $38,418 and 1,795 workhours to conduct this research. TAB C Detailed costs TAB D Analysis of shipping label and packing document allegedly related to a 1970 shipment of unusual weapons to Okinawa, provided by DoD for Army evaluation. TAB E Interviews of MG (Ret) John Hayes, former Commander, 2^nd Logistics Command, Okinawa, during the TAILWIND period, confirming command and control of lethal chemical munitions and disposition of these munitions under his command.
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Arts and Humanities > 10 Humanities > 11 History > 12 By Time Period > 13 20th Century > 14 Military History > 15 World War II > Unit 731 Search the Web just this category Search 16 Advanced Search | 17 Suggest a Site Email to a Friend 18 email this category to a friend SITE LISTINGS * 19 AII POW-MIA: Unit 731 - includes images, articles, and documents. Article examining the origin of Japan's biological warfare research unit, as well as the issue of United States awareness of the unit's medical experiments. Compare prices on thousands of movies, search by title, actor, or director.