3/30    Can anyone justify the use of the prefix "neo" in the term
        "neo-conservative" that is now heard so often?  isn't the exact
        nature of conservatism always changing, and so isn't it always in
        some sense new?  what's the point of this new term?
                \_ It's actually a fairly old term. It originally denoted
                   a specific group of liberals who had become more
                   conservative over time, but were still liberal on
                   social issues. Irving Kristol is the key example.
                   Now it seems to denote people who are interventionist
                   on foriegn policy but moderate on some domestic issues.
        \_ Knock, knock, Neo.
                \_ It's actually a fairly old term. It originally denoted
                   a specific group of liberals who had become more
                   conservative over time, but were still liberal on
                   social issues. Irving Kristol is the key example.
                   Now it seems to denote people who are interventionist
                   on foriegn policy but moderate on some domestic issues.
           \_ No I'm not Neo.  My name is Thomas Anderson, PhD, Prof. of
              Computer Science, UC Berkeley.
              \_ you are not the OP.  I am the OP.
        \_ no. no. none.
        \_ To make a distinction between "old" conservatives whose platform
           hasn't changed significantly since Reagan and "new" conservatives,
           a small crop that has recently surfaced and espouses a much
           more centrist platform while pursuing hegemonic goals that scare
           old conservatives.  Or something like that.  YMMV.
           \_ Ok, but what's the most confusing about the use of this
              term is that it is used to describe members of the Bush
              administration who predate the bush administration by
              decades, like Dick Cheney. This seems an awful lot like
              the way people in the humanities attatch the prefix "post"
              to everything.  I claim that that usually ends up not
              meaning much and weakening the language.
              \_ This is where having a BA in English comes in handy:
                 Believe me when I tell you that the English language
                 is strong enough to weather the additional use of the
                 prefix "neo" as regards conservatives.
        \_ Time magazine has a good article on neo-conservatives and
           the Bush Administration.  Paul Wolfkowiz (?) was the original
           one and he had to convince Cheney/Bush/Powell of the views.
        \_ Because "Neo-conservative" suggests "Neo-Nazi".  Duh!
           Another way of putting it:  Neoconservative == Rumsfeld|Cheney|
           Wolfowitz, Conservative == BushSr|Powell|Reagan
           -the troll who knows more than you
           \_ What about my hero Dubya?!
              \_ like his father, BushSr.  Not neoconservative.
                 \_ Except he is a little less intelligent than his Sr,
                    so he gets pushed around by the neos.
                    \_ Powell was converted too.  Or at least didn't
                       complain publicly.
                       \_ Once Bush got brainwashed, Powell have no
                          choice but to follow along.  Read the recent
                          WSJ article about diplomacy before the war,
                          and how Powell got caught in the middle.
                          Poor guy.  He should have gone for the
                          Presidency himself, rather than work for
                             \_ What purpose would that serve?
                          wimpy Bush and get push around by the neos.
                          \_ I wouldn't call Bush wimpy.  He wants tension
                             between his advisors.
                             \_ To make himself look like an idiot?
                                \_ like him or not, it takes tons of guts
                                   to start a major war like the one in
                                   Iraq.  Dubya has guts.
                                   \_ I don't think he has guts. He never
                                      fought in a war. He also claims to
                                      be Christian, and that all the dead
                                      people go to heaven. So basically
                                      no matter how bad he fucks things up,
                                      the God safety net makes it ok.
                                      \_ if you were president, would you
                                         be able to order a major war like
                                         the one we are having now (pretend
                                         you believe in the cause).  Some
                                         presidents do simple air strike
                                         pin pricks and then say that
                                         was enough.
                                \_ awesome, he has guts.  i feel better now.
                                   "That guy who hit that guy in head with
                                   a spiked bat, he had a lot of guts."
                                   \_ America had guts to enter the 2nd
                                      world war, while those who appeased
                                      Hitler didn't.  Would you want a wimpy
                                      President instead?
                                      \_ Guts? Hitler declared war vs. the US
                                         not the other way around.
                                         \_ The U.S. stayed on the sidelines
                                            for a long time in WWII.
                                            The U.S. didn't have to send
                                            forces anywhere in WWII.
                                            \_ True. And they would have just
                                               sat if Japan hadn't attacked.
                                               As usual, it would have been
                                               easier for the US to deal with
                                               a tyranical dictator (Hitler)
                                               than other democracies.
                       \_ Powell understands that the Bush administration
                          values the appearance of unity and a single
                          message very highly.
              \_ Dubya == a shadow of BushSr -op
                 obbutclintonwasterribleremarks