3/13    Turns out that the "evidence" that Bush presented of Iraqi
        attempts to build a bomb are crude forgeries. Two guesses
        as to who passed them to British Intelligence:
        http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/03/14/sprj.irq.documents
        \_ "Incompetence I have not seen in those agencies. I've seen plenty
           of malice, but I've never seen incompetence."
        \_ "Incompetence I have not seen in those agencies. I've seen
            plenty of malice, but I've never seen incompetence."
           What a ridiculous statement.
           \_ he's talking about the technical services division
        \_ You peaceniks could very likely set the stage for
           use of a nuclear weapon in this country.  Ask yourself this,
           Russians).  You believe Saddam will allow Iran
           to go nuclear and not Iraq?  Had the 1st Gulf War not occurred
           Saddam would have been nuclear by 92 /93.  He had 20,000 +
           personnel working on his program.  Exactly where do you think
           all that expertise went?  This is not a time to play self-
           righteous isolationist.
           Iran is 1 / 2 years tops away for a nuclear weapon - if they
           don't have one already (thanks to the Germans, French, and
           Russians).  You believe Saddam will allow Iran to go nuclear
           and not Iraq?  Had the 1st Gulf War not occurred Saddam would
           have been nuclear by 92 /93.  He had 20,000 + personnel working
           on his program.  Exactly where do you think all that expertise
           went?  This is not a time to play selfrighteous isolationist.
           \_ Ask yourself this warmonger: France, Britain, Russia,
              China, Pakistan and India all have nukes, yet none of
              them have been used against the US. Why is that? How
              would Iraq be any different?
                \_ Understand this.  I am for enforcing the 17 resolutions
                   against Iraq, no more no less.  Terms of the cease
                   \- hello, do you think the us should stop enforcing the
                      no-fly zone over the northern kurd area?
                      that was a us+brit idea  ... not un sanctioned --psb
                        \ Take an educated guess.
                   fire dictated full disarmement.  If the distinction
                   between the countries you mentioned and Iraq is
                   not clear to you, I don't think anything would be
                   gained by explaining it.  And BTW, I seem to
                   remember about 50 years of war between the US, China
                   and Soviets, a little something called the Cold War.
                   Which, incidentally we did not win by protesting
                   for peace and groups hugs.
                   \_ In spite of Reaganite crowing, the Cold War was
                      won primarily with a policy of containment. A
                      good argument can be made that detente, or a policy
                      of "peace and group hugs" reassured the USSR
                      enough to allow more moderate influences
                      to take power.
                        \_ Right, this was a foregone conclusion
                           after the US left Vietnam, Vietnam invaded
                           Cambodia, and the Soviets invaded Afghanistan.
                           Take ~20 % interest rates, double digit
                           inflation, definitely a foregone conclusion.
                        \_ The Cold War was won by the US on 12 Oct 1986.
                           Not because of any peacenik group hug, but
                           because the President was able to make it
                           clear to the Soviets what we wanted, a world
                           in which the dread threat of nuclear destruction
                           did not hang over Europe, Asia or America.
                           The only way the Soviets were going to have
                           have any part in this world was if they agreed
                           to Zero Option.
                           On all accounts detente was a failed policy.
                           Every "accord" signed under detente limited
                           the rate of production and deployment, not
                           the total number of deployed weapons. Detente
                           didn't make the world safe for anyone, it
                           just kept making more and more dangerous in
                           smaller and smaller increments.