3/13    Evidence that even a University Medal winner can be a demagogue:
        http://www.afsc.org/pwork/0600/062k07.htm
        Still, if I had to choose between being a Bush Republican or a
        Clinton liberal, I still prefer the latter.
        \_ Right, exactly how do you think we got in the mess we are in
           today.  Because someone did not have the political will
           or backbone to face pending crisis in foreign affairs.  We were
           attacked FIVE times in the 90's.  This is unamed person was
           too busy jerking off in the oval office sink.
           The peace dividend was completely wasted.
           \_ A Bush Republican, case in point.
                \_ Sorry, I don't like Bush - he domestic policy
                   is liberal.  In foreign affairs, he has performed
                   impecably.  Ask youself why clinton had to take
                   Cohen, a Republican (albeit RINO), for Secretary of
                   Defense.  Please, list for me Clinton's foreign
                   policy successes.
                   \_ The main idea is that the Bush administration is
                      performing so terribly in foreign policy that you
                      don't really need to compare.  Let's put it this way:
                      If Clinton gets a B- in international issues (B being
                      what an average president should succeed with),
                      the Bush administration is getting a C- or below.
                      (I emphasize Bush *administration*, because the
                      brightest bulb is not necessarily at the top.)
                        \_ Ok, in your dream world what would Gore do.
                           If the socialist intellectuals in France, Germany
                           and Communists in China and Russia are pissed
                           off, we must be doing something right.  Bush
                           is a leading.  Exactly how do you think
                           1441 was passed, by making concessions and
                           protesting for peace?
                           \_ In your GW Bush black and white, good and evil
                              world, it's a success to alienate our allies.
                                \_ Alienate France and Russia who have
                                   multi-billion financial interests
                                   in Iraq.  Based on their unassailable
                                   conduct of generosity and ethics in the
                                   past I'm certain their actions
                                   bear no relation to their own self-
                                   interest.
                              Gore and Clinton could have passed 1441 --
                              everyone, frankly, is fine with renewed
                              inspections.  Have you also considered how
                              likely it may be that Iraq is not a threat
                              with inspectors present?  And that if Iraq
                              kicks them out again, passing a resolution
                              authorizing force would be much easier?
                                \_ Some allies, France continues to send
                                   parts for Mirage fighters and helicopters.
                                   Exactly how, under the sanctions in
                                   place, was France able to engage in 10
                                   billion dollars in 90's and negotiate
                                   for 50 billion $ oil development
                                   contracts.   Iraq's entire airforce
                                   in French and Russian.
                         \_ Please list for me Clinton's successes that
                            strenthened US national security.
                            The silence deafening.
                            \_ Sir, do you get the point?  Even if Clinton
                               had absolutely no successes, it doesn't even
                               compare to the failures that the Bush
                               administration continues to draw.
                                 \_ Evidently I don't have the sophistication
                                    to appreciate your point of view.  I
                                    suppose I'm relegated to just
                                    considering facts.
                                    \_ and those facts are ...?
                            \_ A nations long term security depends on
                               the strength of its economy, especially
                               vis a vis its potential enemies. Clinton
                               avoided foreign entanglement while growing
                               the economy domestically faster than any
                               of our potential enemies except China. He
                               was at least moderately successful.
                                \_ Ok, please specifically enumerate
                                   the legislation Clinton solely sponsored
                                   that gave us the economy. And I suppose
                                   the recession we are in has nothing
                                   to do with the speculative nature and
                                   excesses of that economy?
                                   \_ The most spectacular corporate
                                      instances of corruption and failure
                                      all have strong ties to Republican
                                      political influence.  WorldCom,
                                      Enron, price fixing on energy
                                      prices... ringing a bell?
                                        \_ Please tell that to Robert
                                           Rubin and Ron Brown.  I find
                                           it saddening that this started
                                           as a discussion of foreign
                                           policy and you have deliberately
                                           tried to change the subject
                                           for lack of credible argument.
        \_ Anyways, like I said, case in point:  Bush Republican.  The
           basic problem with Republicans today is that they're just
           so high up on a moral superiority righteous liberals are stupid to
           hell with everyone else attitude.
                \_ Its funny that even after Clinton was the worst
                   President since FDR his acolytes fight to get in line
                   on their knees to felate him.
                   \_ Go back to watching the Fox News channel.