Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 26938
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2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

2002/12/30 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:26938 Activity:high 71%like:26931
12/28   The failure of the German welfare cradle-to-grave system:
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/813440/posts
        \_ Wow.  Tax revenues are down and deficits are up, so the government
           raises taxes?!  Thank God that would never happen here!  Get a life,
           pal.  A majority of states right here in the US are in the same
           economic boat.  How many of them have a "cradle-to-grave" welfare
           system?  Get a life.
           \_ You're not making any sense.  If you could calm down for the 30
              seconds it might take to write a reply maybe we could discuss it.
              In the mean time, take a look and see the long term fate of an
              industrialized western nation with even greater taxes than here:
              9% unemployment and zero growth to our lower taxes, lower
              enumployment rate and above-zero growth.
              \_ Austria +2.5%, Britain +3.4% , Spain +3.2% quit making shit
                 up.
                 \_ None of which have the same level of socialist support or
                    taxes Germany has.  Thanks for staying on point.
              \_ Aren't you late for some cyrillic menorah reading or somesuch?
                 \_ No idea who or what you're talking about.
              \_ you may or may not be right, but the existence of a recession
                 doesn't mean that's the "long term fate" of such a system.
                 duh.
                 \_ Been going on for *9* years.  Read the article, then come
                    come back and let us know what you think.  "duh"
              \_ I like it when the poor suffer and die. It's much better that
                 way. I mean, God must want it to happen, right?
                 \_ Because once the economy collapses from over taxation, all
                    those poor citizens will be equally "wealthy" and therefore
                    happy, right?
                 \_ You can't legislate compassion.
              \_ How much stuff is "enough"? I don't think growth and
                 consumption are always good. Look how overfed Americans
                 are. We are dying from our overconsumption.
                 \_ infidel defiler!!!  you are now required to read
                    the Fountainhead and buy an SUV or suffer the
                    consequences.
                 \_ Americans are not overfed.  Those who are fat are so
                    because of the kinds of foods they eat, not the amount.
                    And you apparently haven't been to Germany.  West Germany
                    has plenty of fatties rolling about.  Anyway, I find it
                    interesting that the only people who say "how much stuff
                    is enough" are those who have nothing and want to take from
                    those who have.  Go earn it.  It isn't your place to decide
                    how much another human being is allowed to earn.  You also
                    confuse 'economic growth' with 'pants size growth'.  Please
                    come back after getting a passing grade in Econ 1 where
                    they'll explain how zero economic growth with a growing
                    population means the average standard of living will drop.
                    \_ The German population is not growing. Go back to Econ 1
                       yourself. I have everything I want and no desire to
                       take from others. It is you greedheads that are never
                       satisfied. If your selfishness and stupidity were not
                       destoying the planet, I would be happy to let you
                       wallow in all the crap you desire.
                       \_ Go Captain Planet go!  Save that rock!  Nader in
                          2004!
2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

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www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/813440/posts
Associated Press ^ | Dec 28, 2002 | Tony Czuczka Posted on 12/28/2002 11:53:03 AM PST by 8 jimbo123 BERLIN (AP) - They re-elected him only in September, but these days Germans who voted Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder back into office are letting their anger flow freely - workers, corporate bosses, even his political allies. Insurance salesman Guenter Pehnemann grouses about the tax hikes Schroeder said he wanted to avoid, then announced by the dozen after his re-election. Physiotherapist Claudia Muhlke supports Schroeder, but complains of a "chaotic" government with no apparent strategy for reviving the economy and keeping Germany's costly social safety net from going bust. The complaints echo those of millions of Germans whose loss of faith in their 58-year-old leader has sent his approval ratings plunging from a pre-election 55 percent to as low as 33 percent and even forced him to slap down media speculation that he might quit. Schroeder's Social Democrats and their coalition partner, the Greens, eked out a narrow victory Sept. But discontent over taxes has eclipsed war worries since then. But conservative opponents are calling it "election fraud" and demanding a parliamentary inquiry, and a rap song satirizing the chancellor as a tax-grabber tops the German charts. Schroeder's hastily drafted revenue-raising plans hit so far and wide that Germans find plenty to be outraged about. Plane tickets, flowers, heating oil - all are set to become more expensive next year, and a popular government subsidy for homebuilders is to be slashed by nearly $3,000. Even a children's favorite is being targeted: "Surprise eggs," chocolate candies with a toy inside, are taxed as food, but will now be slapped with the full rate for toys, upping the price 8 percent to 54 cents. The rush to raise taxes has also raised alarm bells among Greens. Schroeder's troubles are raising deeper questions about the future of a welfare-state economy that is among Europe's most generous, but takes about 40 percent of a single-earner household's income in payroll and income taxes, plus an income tax surcharge to rebuild formerly communist East Germany, and even a "church tax" to finance congregations of Germany's various faiths. As the population ages and the birthrate dwindles, many wonder who will replenish the coffers. And Germany has the added burden of being looked to by the rest of Europe to pull the continent's economy. Launched in the 19th century by conservative chancellor Otto von Bismarck to blunt the rise of socialism, the welfare system has steadily grown since World War II to encompass cradle-to-grave coverage. One-time payments range from "motherhood money," up to $1,670 to help offset costs of bringing home a new baby, to "burial money" of around $1,000 toward funeral costs. There's free school tuition and health care, subsidized spa visits and help with the rent. The state will pay up to two-thirds of your salary for two years and eight months. Construction workers, meanwhile, can ask for "winter money" to tide them over during the cold months. Nearly every second euro spent in Germany is spent by the government, the majority for social programs. In the United States, government's share of spending is about a third. Some programs have actually become more generous under Schroeder, like the subsidy for families that lets parents of all incomes claim at least $157 a month per child, besides motherhood money. Economists have argued for years that trimming benefits would help lift Europe's biggest economy, stuck at near-zero growth and a 9 percent jobless rate. But Schroeder, whose party depends on labor union support, has avoided addressing the issue head-on. Instead, soon after the election the government ordered a 2 percent hike in the payroll tax that finances retiree benefits. Already, experts say more increases are virtually inevitable. Schroeder's conservative predecessor, Helmut Kohl, also bucked the persistent call for overhauling the welfare system, resisting cuts in benefits for 16 years. When he finally took action near the end of his term, he provoked howls of protest, and as soon as Schroeder was elected in 1998, he revoked the measures. Some Social Democrats, keen to preserve their image as defenders of the welfare state, have suggested Germans can stand even more taxes than Schroeder has imposed. Physiotherapist Muhlke said she had no regrets about voting for a second term for Schroeder, yet she too found something to fault: a planned 50 percent rise in a tax on people using a company car.