11/4    http://www.fairvote.org
        End the 2 party system.
        \_ Yes it's a much better system. Now if I could see something
           indicating how to do it. Changes to the Constitution are
           ...difficult. San Francisco enacting the instant runoff system
           was a hopeful thing to see, though.
        \_ Fuck that noise.  The two party system has given us a stable and
           functional government for 200+ years.  What?  You want something
           like what Italy has?  Get stuffed.
           \_ They done brain-washed you real good.
              \_ Ad hominen is a waste of bits.  Go to Italy.  The last thing
                 this country needs is extremists in office that PR allows
                 to happen.  Government and voting is about getting a
                 functional stable government, not about letting every little
                 2 bit crack pot group that can garner 3% of the vote a say in
                 governing the 97% of the normal people.
                 \_ The cutoff wouldn't have to be 3%, and if it was, that
                    wouldn't affect you because 3% of congress can't force
                    the rest to do anything.
                    \_ You mean like how if some crackpot group had only 3
                       Senators right now that would be ok with you?  Nutty.
           \_ I want something like The Netherland, Belgium or Germany has.
              \_ I don't know about the first two but German government is in
                 the shitter.
        \_ Strangely enough, most reasonably stable democracies I can think
           of tend towards a two party system, both of which tend to gravitate
           very close towards each other, except in times of economic crisis
           (take Turkey), at which point they get replaced by...another two
           parties.  France, Germany, the UK, Russia, Italy, Spain, Israel...
           there's usually a rightist and a leftist party, with some smaller
           ones sniping from the sidelines.  The only difference being that
           the countries with parliamentary as opposed to three-branch systems
           of government tend to see coalitions with a whole bunch of smaller
           parties... -John
           \_ You are right, and the two parties "gravitate" as close together
              as possible.  Just like gas stations. -crebbs
           \_ Does parliamentary necessarily equal proportional representation
              by party?  i.e. by "parliamentary systems" do you mean those
              Where if a party gets 10% of the vote it gets 10% of the reps?
              And is that a common understanding of "parliamentary" versus
              US-style democracy??
              \_ no.
              \_ No.  Parliamentary in this case meaning a system lacking
                 separation between legislative and executive branch (i.e.
                 the prime minister is chosen by the legislative, with no
                 or only a weak president to balance it out--Germany, the UK,
                 and Israel are examples.  As for proportional representation,
                 I think most major democracies require at that at least an
                 initial hurdle in terms of vote percentage be cleared for
                 a person to obtain a seat.  Whether this is done on a per
                 candidate or per party basis differs.  -John
           \_ That's fine that there are two major parties, but that's a lot
              different than ONLY two parties. This country gets lowest-common
              denominator politics, whereas in for example Germany small parties
              like the Greens can and do get representatives in the gov't.
              Essentially there's 0.01% chance of another party getting any
              power, and this directly lends itself to corruption and
              special interest politics.
              \_ Many people see it as a good thing that an extremist minority
                 party like the Greens don't have any power in this country.
                 If you and enough others like the Greens so much they'll get
                 some power.  But they won't because they don't represent
                 enough nutcases to allow them to ruin anything for the rest
                 of the country.  I laughed my ass off when the German Green
                 party got into power.  It was the end of Germany's chances at
                    \_ Shhh! He hadn't figured that part out yet!
                 recovering and becoming a great nation anytime soon.
                 \_ It's not about extremist minorities you buffoon. Look at
                    California; with PR you would see more conservative
                    representation.
                    \_ I don't want to see more of any representation.  I want
                       to see a functional and stable government which is still
                       responsible to the people.  PR fails the first and part
                       of the second.  Idiotic response from clueless third
                       party purged from motd.
        \_ This is cool. Don't mathematicians study voting systems?
           Can anyone recommend a mathematics text on voting?
           \_ http://www.ctl.ua.edu/math103
           \_ Yeah, yeah, we all read slashdot.  Troll harder.