10/25   The boss instituted a 7-day vacation/sick day (combined) policy
        for those who have been working for at least a year.  He says
        most startups don't give any vacation time at all.  Is this
        accurate?  How about where you work?
        \_ My company is still a "startup". 14 days vacation + 2 sick
           days per year. Pretty standard.
        \_ This is not accurate.  Most startups give 2 or 3 weeks
           paid time off (sick+vacation) and then aim to squeeze
           seventy hours weeks out of you the rest of the time.
        \_ That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard.
        \_ Utter bullshit
        \_ I'm not at a startup.  I'm at a gov't research lab.  But I
           get 13 sick days and 13 holidays per year, not counting
           national holidays such as Memorial day.  --PeterM
        \_ could be true.  Maybe you are a really small startup?
           \_ We have ~ 15 on-site employees.  Around for a couple years now.
            \_ It is bullshit.  Your boss is abusing the fact that jobs are
               scarce right now.  Do you really want to work for someone who
               tries to fuck hisi employees when he thinks he can get away with
               it?
                \_ Who would?  But the sad thing is, he CAN get away with it.
                   Bloody damned economy.  Irrational exuberance can bite me.
                   \_ The only reason he can get away with it is because
                      of apathetic, low self-image developers (and H1B's).
                      The market is bad, but it's not THAT bad.
                      \_ what safe secure hole have you been in?  or do you
                         rewl?  It *is* THAT bad
        \_ well that depends. Are you a H1B? If you are, ALL YOUR BASES ARE
           BELONG TO HIM. H1B have no legal grounds to sue and have no basis
           for complaint. It's the best cheap hitech labor.
           \_ Nonsense.  Civil complaints can be filed by anyone regardless
              of nationality.  Some courts will charge extra large filing
              fees for nonresidents, however.
              \_ That doesn't mean you will win.
        \_ we had FIVE weeks vacation at my last job... a start-up.
           of course, this was ~2 years ago.
        \_ Any URLs for vacation/sick policies (I looked on google) for
           startups?  If we assume he's not trying to screw people, the
           boss is a Type A personality who thinks everyone should work as
           hard as he does.  He thinks we should all work really hard and
           be proud when we succeed as a company -- instead of all acting
           like a bunch of 40hr/wk overpaid ingrates.
           \_ This sort of expectation is extremely unprofessional for any
              except a small cadre of founding members -- and even then it's
              borderline.  Very few people are in industry strictly because
              they like to work really hard.
           \_ "Proud" as in "wow, that's swell, have a piece of cake and let's
              get back to work" proud or "here's a nice big bonus and take a
              few weeks off" proud? Personally as I get older, I find better,
              more gratifying things to do in my life than cubicle work. What
              good is it to be successful if you can't enjoy life? And Allah
              help you, if have a family or get into a relationship. Your boss
              is trying to make you feel guilty for making money AND maybe
              trying to enjoy life at the same time. 'Sup to you to take
              it or leave it. Here's the best way to look at it, if the person
              of your dreams asks you to spend a long weekend in Tahoe and
              you can't do it because you had the flu in January, your life
              officially sucks.
        \_ Generally speaking, US sucks in terms of vacation days.  Europe
           and even countries in Asia are much better.  They get like 30
           days of vacation.  I only get a measly 13 days (not including
           sick days though).  It's because US has an anal retentive
           pilgrim's calling type of twisted work ethic.  However, I must
           say that your case is especially bad.  I think you are being
           bullied and exploited.  You should kick your boss.  Darn!  It's
           almost 8 p.m. Friday, why am I still at work?  Must be because
           I am a H1B slave.
        \_ Look, you are being exploited.  You know you are being exploited.
           Otherwise you wouldn't have posted to the motd.  Now if you just
           let this guy fuck you, you are a pathetic tool.  And to sit and
           whine about how the economy is os bad he can get away with it is
           not a solution.  First do you really want to work for someone who
           is going to treat you like shit any chance he gets?  I mean do you
           need the money that bad?  Do you have kids?  House payments?
           There are other jobs out there.  But if you don't want to quit
           you could actually talk to the guy about it.  Ask the other people
           at the company if they feel the vacation deal is fair.  If they
           don't ask them if they will back you if you make an issue out of it.
           They don't have to say anything, jsut sign something, or stand
           behind you when you make a case to the boss.  Then go in, and
           actually talk to the guy.  Don't be aggressive but don't be
           apologetic in any way shape or form.  Let him know you and the
           others are unhappy and that you want or more reasonable vacation
           policy.  That simple.  Chances are it will work.
           \_ The first half of your post is bang on.  But the idea of
              approaching management this way is unrealisitic at best -- this
              is something that is highly dependant on the work environment
              and the people involved.  Odds are, unless the OP is VERY
              charismatic, no one will back him when it gets real -- and
              dealing with an A-personality boss like this is only likely to
              get you classified as either a slacker, a troublemaker, or empty
              noise.  I've seen this happen before -- the 'shop-steward'
              approach is almost pointless in the vast majority of work
              environments.  If your company has an HR person or a sympathetic
              senior exec, you're better off working thru them than trying to
              start a half-assed revolution that's more likely to get you
              pushed out (shitty work assignments, blatant disrespect, etc).
              Don't get me wrong, communication is good -- but start with
              proper channels of communication before you escalate to direct
              confrontation.  Direct confrontation + junior level of
              employment is a really bad mix.              -mice
        \_ I have worked at four startups: the worst had 15 days PTO
           and nine holiday days a year, the best 11 holiday days, five
           days sick and three weeks vacation. -ausman