Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 26019
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2025/04/04 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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2002/9/26-27 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26019 Activity:high
9/26    Let's say a certain state wants to split from the US and become a
        separate country, is there any legal way to do it?  Can it run a
        popular vote within the state, similar to what Quebec did?
        \_ yes, there is a process for this.
        \_ No, there is no way to do this.  Some tried it in the mid 1800's (you
           may have heard of it) but it didn't work.
           \_ you can create an amendment to do almost anything.
              \_ It would never pass.  Once you join the Union, you're in for
                 good.  Think of it like the GPL.
                 \_ whether it would pass or not is a separate issue.  The
                    question is whether there is a legal way to do it.  There
                    is, even if it is quite unlikely.
                    \_ No.  There is no way currently to do it legally
                       (with the exception of Texas, actually).
                        \_ I thought New Hampshire or Vermont also had the
                           mythical "escape clause"?  Also, if you're going
                           go get into legal technicalities, I believe
                           international law would permit HI and CA to
                           secede, as they were annexed (albeit with the
                           consent of their respective governments at the
                           time)  -John
                           \_ Huh -- that's pretty interesting.  I'll have
                              to look into this more.  Thanks!     -mice
        \_ http://www.siptn.org/April/williams.htm
           Take the above with grain of salt.
2025/04/04 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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www.siptn.org/April/williams.htm
Despite that evidence, some readers concluded differently. Let's consider an alternative to secession in response to federal government encroachment on our liberties. Suppose Congress enacted the Federal Clean Thoughts Act (FCTA) and President Bush signed it. Under its provisions, before books and newspaper reports could be published and before television and radio programs could be broadcasted, prior approval of their "fitness" would have to be obtained from the Federal Clean Thoughts Commission. Supreme Court charging FCTA is a violation of the First Amendment. However, the court finds that under the Constitution's "general welfare clause," the law is constitutional. Do we accept the tyranny or pick up the sword, or do we think about state secession again? I would hope that the response of my fellow Americans wouldn't be: "Williams, the law is the law. Do we allow the federal government to determine the scope of its own powers? Should we accept whatever Congress, the White House and the courts say is constitutional? Constitution provides no specific provision for nullification, the case for nullification is found in the nature of compacts and agreements. Our constitution represents a compact between the states and the federal government. As with any compact, one party does not have a monopoly over its interpretation, nor can one party change it without the consent of the other. Additionally, no one has a moral obligation to obey unconstitutional laws. That's not to say there isn't a compelling case for obedience to unconstitutional laws: the brutal force of the federal government to coerce obedience. Supreme Court and White House sanction, represents constitutional encroachments of varying degrees. In violation of both the letter and spirit, the federal government imposes unconstitutional and costly mandates covering the gamut from education and land usage to how much water can be used to flush toilets. I wonder when a governor and his state legislature will summon the courage to declare some of these federal laws null and void, and refuse to enforce them. Of course, Washington might respond by not sending back money the citizens pay in federal taxes. Then the potential of ugliness arises because the state can establish a mechanism to withhold the money its citizens send to Washington. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics at George Mason University in Fairfax, Va.