9/13 http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/iraq/tenthings.html
What you can do about the hopefully not COMPLETELY IMMINENT
war on iraq. I admit that some of them are kind of
naive and uneffective, but what else are you going to do?
\_ You've probably seen the flyers but there will be a march in the
city tomorrow afternoon. The global exchange website has a link to
that tells the details. I won't make it and I'm curious what other
stuff people know about. I've written my letters and called my
reps. I'm looking for things outside of Berkeley. -- ulysses
\_ You're going to thank your lucky stars you're a citizen of the most
powerful nation ever to grace this planet; a nation so powerful, we
no longer draft idealistic young idiots such as yourself to defend
ourselves. We only send poor white trash and desperate minorities
to defend the college kids now. Be glad you're part of the elite
and never have to risk anything to keep freedom alive. You get to
post URLs and mouth off without fear of government retribution.
\_ How is Iraq threatening our freedom? Our freedom to have cheap
oil? If the Saudis want defense, they can pay for it themselves
they're not helping us anyways. Fuckers.
\_ Uhm, where have you been? Let's assume the weapons inspectors
got 100% of everything before leaving in 98. What are the
\_ I am open to suggestions for more useful
urls.
odds Iraq hasn't started up new programs since then? Zero is
a reasonable guess. Given they're working on WMD, it becomes
a case of "when" we need to do something, not "should we". I
don't give a flying figs fart about oil or the Saudis.
\_ !given: produce the evidence.
\_ Use some logic. It should be obvious they're still
working on it. Why would they suddenly stop after the
inspectors are gone?
\_ Because the facilities were destroyed?
\_ "Hey Georgie, watch me make a nuclear bomb out of rubble.
Nuthin' up my sleeve... Presto!"
\_ Nonsense. They're got plenty of cash, a decent
military for the area even after getting beat on in 91
and the will to use it.
don't want to sell to me a nice price, I'll go elsewhere.
\_ Makes you wonder how man the Saudis have. They're
far richer and they've shown they'll go splat for
the cause.
\_ you probably should give a fig about oil, everything
in our daily life depends on it. there are a bunch
of articles out there from the un weapons inspector
who doubts iraq has the industrial capacity to
make weapons of mass destruction. i also don't think
if we bomb the fuck out of iraq, that a magical new
american friendly regime will rise up out of the ashes
- danh
\_ Ritter? You mean the same guy who when he left was
still reporting they hadn't gotten everything but 4
years later is now giving a clean bill of health? And
hey let's ignore the post-Ritter UN Security Council's
report that was sponsored by the Russians and intended
to clear their buddy Iraq but only confirmed Ritter's
you and those near you. And then actually do it anyways
to make an example of questioning authority. The Mogols
had terror down pat. The VV doesn't KNOW real terror.
last official report that Iraq still has WMD and was
continuing to work on them at the time. Ritter is
playing some kind of sick game. He either lied then or
he's lying now. Either way, his credibility is now
zero.
\_ I don't care about "protecting" oil either. I rather
pay for it at the pump than through my taxes. If they
don't want to sell to us at a nice price, we'll buy
from Canada or Russia. If it costs more, we'll adapt.
BFD. I don't want to send some teenagers to die
so that I can drive as much as I want.
\_ Oil prices have been falling for years.
Plus, consumption of fuel will fall because
the real price of the fuel appears at the pump
rather than coming out of your paycheck twice
a month.
\_ It's not just cars, it's all motor vehicles.
Transportation costs could shoot up making things
cost more and cut down consumer spending which is
keeping the US economy alive right now.
\_ Oil prices have been falling for years. Plus,
consumption of fuel will fall because the real
price of the fuel appears at the pump rather
than coming out of your paycheck twice a month.
\_ I bet you really think that too...
\_ that's a bunch of crap. i recently
went to a panel where a group of
hydrogen fuel cell industry leaders
spoke about their businesses, and
they are not all that far from
the automotive market. why is 2015 such
a crazy time to have the technology to
market? this is good money, being
spend on good research and develpement.
\_ this is why one of the only *really* smart
things the Bush administration has done is
to put 1.5 Billion dollars into Hydrogen
fuel cell reesearch, primarily for automotive
aplications. why they didn't try to get more
publicity for this genuinely smart move is
beyoned me.
\_ Because it's a kickback to his oil buddies
http://csua.org/u/296
\_ that's a bunch of crap. i recently went to
a panel where a group of hydrogen fuel cell
industry leaders spoke about their
businesses, and they are not all that far
from the automotive market. why is 2015
such a crazy time to have the technology to
market? this is good money, being spend on
good research and develpement.
\_ While at the same time, all attempts
at increasing fuel efficiency standards
are thrown down with bullshit arguments
over "safety concerns". Efficiency is
death to capitalism.
\_ Because in 10 years, they'll discover
an even spiffier technology, or prove
the fuel cell is the wrong answer, and
have to spend another 10 years thinking
of a better way to do thing and by the
way it's gonna cost the taxpayer another
few billion.
\_ Was the Roman Empire or the Mongolian Empire more powerful than
the US?
\_ Not even close.
\_ Depends on what you define as "powerful." For world influence
and economic domination, the US. For deference by neighbors,
allies, and occupied nations, the Romans. For sheer terror
and size of empire, the Mongols.
\_ The US gets tremendous deference from the entire world.
They just want us to make some noises via the UN first so
they can feel like they still matter. If you read the
village voice or listen to certain South Africans, the US
is already the greatest threat to world peace so we've got
it on the Mongols, too. Also, the Mongols fell apart
almost instantly because they didn't have enough people
to hold their land and they were a charisma based primitive
leadership system, no concept of transition or government.
\_ I meant deference as in defer to us or we will slaughter
you and those near you. And then do it anyways to make
an example of questioning authority. A Roman without
escort could walk the Empire knowing that if he were
hurt, all of the locals would die. The Mogols had
terror down pat. The VV doesn't KNOW real terror.
\_ How about the mafia?
\_ What's "VV"?
\_ A W with a split personality.
\_ Mongols didn't fall apart instantly! Stop insulting
us Mongols! We ruled Moscow for a few centuries. We
ruled China, and we had the Mughal empire!
\_ You fell back from Europe in a flash of historical
time. Just poof. Gone with no long lasting changes
on the locals. Sorry mongoloid boy but your people
were good for nothing but a few hollywood films, a
cliche or two and some Xena episodes.
\_ Ungrateful unguns! If we didn't kick the
Islamic terrorists from their behind,
including the grand old daddy of terrorists
the old man of the assassins, and severely
damaged their vitality, those islamic
sand people would be marching all over you,
and putting your bad mamas in their harems.
Not only that, we established trade routes
all over central asia which helped spread
trade and knowledge!
\_ How about the British Empire at its peak around the 19th
century or so?
\_ What British Empires? Where is it? I don't see it.
\_ Not now. At its zenith, the British Empire stretched
over one-fourth of the earth's surface.
\_ I would willing serve in the defense of America, but invading
Iraq isn't about defending America. Its all about politics. A
good war will help the Republicans in the upcoming elections
and the establishment of a puppet regime in Iraq will allow
US and British oil companies to gain access to cheap crude.
These companies are big backers of the Pres. and will help him
in his re-election bid. - !OP
\_ The previous US-Iraq war clearly didn't help the Republicans
when Bush Sr. lost to CliTton and had to let him finish the
job.
\_ That's not the point. It's whether the Republican
leadership think it would. Remember Max Boot the
republican bull dog of Daily Cal? He proclaimed 4
more years of George Bush right after the Gulf War.
\_ Duh, anyone with a tenth of brain cell would've said
that at the time since he was riding the high 80's in
public polls. You're stretching.
\_ Anyone with some brain cells would not put too
much faith in polls in predicting elections
some ways down the road. Not all our polticians
have brain cells though.
\_ So call Max Boot and the motd poster above and
let them know how stupid they are to think that
a high poll rating now will translate into votes
later. I agree with you.
\_ Max Boot is now working for a Republican
think tank and his articles had appeared in
the Foreign Affairs.
\_ ok i'll bite, what's so idiotic about being against
the upcoming iraq war? It's kind of late to rant right now,
maybe when I get some sleep.
\_ Give it a rest. He was posting useful information for folks like
me, not trying to start debate.
\_ If you really *needed* that URL then you're not going to be
doing anything useful. There was nothing useful there.
\_ I am open to suggestions for more useful urls.
\_ Useful for what? |
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