7/1     What's your impression of the quality of Apple engineering? My
        wife asked me this question and the best answer I had was, "well,
        it's, uh, complicated." Before OS X came out, Apple had reputation
        for innovation but not for delivering products in a timely manner.
        Now that OS X is out, it seems that they're being taken a bit more
        seriously.
        \_ Apple used to do very interesting R&D, but had a serious case
           of the "not-invented-here" syndrome. under OS X, Apple is more
           able and more willing to leverage standards. however, they are
           also now more focused on Product Development rather than
           pie-in-the-sky research.
           so yes, it's complicated. -- long-time Apple user.
           so yes, it's complicated. -- long-time Apple loser.
        \_ Apple UI was always a step ahead (of microsoft, etc) but their
           actual underlying technology has always sucked.  Think cooperative
           multi tasking.  Think finder.  Think different.
        \_ Engineering?  Hardware or software?  OS or BIOS or apps?  Product
           design or board or ASIC?  Apple product design is acknowledged to
           be tops.  Board guys are board guys, but pc motherboards aren't
           stressful board designs anyway.  I always thought they had pretty
           wimpy chip teams (even when I was a chip guy there).  I thought
           Apple had ok OS types (considering the baggage they had to carry),
           but the BIOS was pure black magic, and no one at Apple fully
           understood it even 8 years ago.
           \_ One more comment...  I noticed that the mass unwashed tends to
              equate innovation with product design.  In that case, Apple
              has a reputation for innovation.  I wouldn't say that Apple
              has a strong reputation for doing exciting engineering in
              other areas.
                \_ exciting or quality?  IMO there's a big difference.
        \_ You know, apple invented pc, gui, mouse, laser printer, ethernet,
           combustible computing, pda, risc, the concept of proprietary
           software and look&feel, lawsuits, cloning, and now "the most
           advanced OS  ever."
           \_ Apple did NOT invent the mouse.  The mouse was invented at SRI.
              I saw the first mouse on display there when I interviewed.
              Combustible computing, on the other hand...
                -- ilyas