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| 5/24 |
| 2002/6/24-25 [Computer/Rants] UID:25181 Activity:very high |
6/24 Yet more evidence that Sun is screwed up:
link:www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/3532881.htm
\_ I don't even have to read the link to know Sun is screwed up! :-)
\_ SUN is done and the sad part is that they don't realize it. If
they realized it then maybe they'd be able to do something about
it, but pride is a bitch. --dim
\_ someone forgot to tell SGI they were "done"
\_ I'm friends with an SGI fanatic. It's sad.
\_ SGI is "done" as far as competing in the marketplace is
concerned. The only thing that keeps them going is huge
tax payer subsidies in the form of DoE, DoD, USGS and
NASA contracts.
\_ hiring cheap H1B workers over citizens is unethical but not
\- why is it unethical? --psb
illegal. It cuts costs and makes stock holders happy. Welcome
to the new economy.
\_ The only reason it is legal is because high tech companies
lobbied to change the law and increase the number of H1B
visa-holders allowed in. And because high tech workers did
not try to stop them back in 96 when we had a chance, or
even in 2000, when they increased again the number allowed.
\_ yes, in America, justice is a decision in your favor,
and legal is when you have the money to make it so.
\_ How is it unethical?
\_ It is not. There is no ethic but the desire for money.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is a communist.
\_ Incorrect. It is illegal and unethical. For illegal, see:
http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ETA/Title_20/Part_655/20CFR655.739.htm
Unethical because the company is not using the immigration/work
policy in the spirit in which it was concieved and established.
\_ Guess where the companies will go if they can't hire
enough workers at competitive rate. See all the industries
that left US for cheaper labor? Companies are in it to
make money. They will go where the money is. The trend l
ately is to open design centers in India and China, tech
will probably go the way of other industries eventually.
make money. The trend lately is to open design centers
in India and China, tech will probably go the way of other
industries eventually.
\_ There is more to an economy than cheap labor. If that was
all there was to it, countries like Nigeria would be
booming, instead of the basket cases they are. Business
needs a stable legal system, respect for property rights
and an educated and entrepreneurial workforce. Why don't
all the silicon valley companies just move to Mississippi
or better yet Nigeria if labor cost was all there is
to it? We will lose some jobs to other regions, but I
think business owes some responsibility to those regions
and economic systems that make them successful.
\_ Being meritocratic is part of what makes the system
work.
\_ True. But when the rest of the world can provide
equally good labor at cheaper rate, corporations will
move. I don't advocate it, but I dont want to be
a victim when it happens, see the textile and steel
industry. What's left for people that worked in the
steel factories for decades, only to find out that
the factories are bankrupt and can not afford the
retirement benefit that was promised once upon a time?
US has distinct advantage of able to gather some
of the brightest minds, with some of the best
universities, but eventually, the rest of the world
will catch slowly as far as technology goes. Some
of the more "trivial" tasks like tech supports are
already being moved off shore, what's to gaurantee that
companies won't do the same for R&D jobs?
\_ Which means, what, that US industries should adapt
illegal and unethical practices in order to compete?
Lovely thought. You es eh! You es eh! Exploit! Exploit!
Race ya to the bottom. Let's see who falls apart first.
\_ If companies/execs care so much about ethics, there
wouldn't be likes of Enrons and Imclones. When execs
stands to reap millions in options by beating the
forcast by a cent, they'd do it in a heart beat,
ethical or not, sometimes even illegally. Wake up
to reality. Make yourself employeable, and not
wait for ethical companies to save you, they hardly
exist.
\_ But is considering citizenship status when doing layoffs
ethical or illegal discrimination? If they laid off all the
H1-B's first, it would look a lot like illegal discrimination
against Asians.
\_ Nonsense. First of all, the H1b program is not for Asians.
It is for any foreigners with tech skills desirable to this
country's employers. Secondly, by definition an H1b worker
is not a citizen and therefore does not have all the same
rights a citizen has. They're guest workers and subject to
being first-fired with no recourse. That's the risk they
take for the bigger bucks available. And thirdly, Jesus F.
Christ on a stick! Get over all the PC _bullshit_! |
| 5/24 |
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| www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ETA/Title_20/Part_655/20CFR655.739.htm The employer may use legitimate selection criteria relevant to the job that are normal or customary to the type of job involved, so long as such criteria are not applied in a discriminatory manner. This section provides guidance for the employer's compliance with the recruitment obligation. Thus, a hospital, university, or computer software development firm is to use the recruitment standards utilized by the health care, academic, or information technology industries, respectively, in hiring workers in the occupations in question. Solicitation methods may be either external or internal to the employer's workforce (with internal solicitation to include current and former employees). Solicitation methods may be either active (where an employer takes positive, proactive steps to identify potential applicants and to get information about its job openings into the hands of such person) or passive (where potential applicants find their way to an employer's job announcements). Active solicitation methods include direct communication to incumbent workers in the employer's operation and to workers previously employed in the employer's operation and elsewhere in the industry; An employer is not required to utilize any particular number or type of recruitment methods, and may make a determination of the standards for the industry through methods such as trade organization surveys, studies by consultative groups, or reports/statements from trade organizations. An employer which makes such a determination should be prepared to demonstrate the industry-wide standards in the event of an enforcement action pursuant to subpart I of this part. How are "legitimate selection criteria relevant to the job that are normal or customary to the type of job involved" to be identified? Relevant to the job, meaning criteria which have a nexus to the job's duties and responsibilities; What actions would constitute a prohibited "discriminatory manner" of recruitment? The employer shall not apply otherwise-legitimate screening criteria in a manner which would skew the recruitment process in favor of H-1B nonimmigrants. No specific regimen is required for solicitation methods seeking applicants or for pre-selection treatment screening applicants. The employer shall maintain documentation of the recruiting methods used, including the places and dates of the advertisements and postings or other recruitment methods used, the content of the advertisements and postings, and the compensation terms (if such are not included in the content of the advertisements and postings). The documentation may be in any form, including copies of advertisements or proofs from the publisher, the order or confirmation from the publisher, an electronic or printed copy of the Internet posting, or a memorandum to the file. The employer shall retain any documentation it has received or prepared concerning the treatment of applicants, such as copies of applications and/or related documents, test papers, rating forms, records regarding interviews, and records of job offers and applicants' responses. To comply with this requirement, the employer is not required to create any documentation it would not otherwise create. The documentation maintained by the employer shall be made available to the Administrator in the event of an enforcement action pursuant to subpart I of this part. This may be accomplished either through a memorandum or through copies of pertinent documents. |