Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 24913
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2021/06/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2002/5/22-23 [Transportation/Car, Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Transportation] UID:24913 Activity:very high
5/22    Is the campus administration going to do anything about the
        network connectivity?
        \_ There's no problem with networ~{~#{}{@}NO CARRIER~~
           \_ Funny!
        \_ The problem with the network is fundamental--bandwidth usage is
           rising faster than bandwidth cost is falling.  Something will be
           done about it at some point, but it won't be something you'll
           like.  -tom
           \_ Like paying/packet or port blocking?
              \_ For example.  -tom
              \_ send the bill to reshall
                \_ The reshalls already pay for their own bandwidth, and
                   they don't affect the rest of the campus.  -tom
           \_ It'd be nice if the discussion regarding this was in a
              public forum.  A while back, there was some traffic
              regarding this topic on, but that has
              essentially come to a halt.
           \_ Has there been any discussion of traffic shaping?  It seems like
              it could offer a sensible solution to the problem. -dans
                \_ There already is some traffic shaping going on.  But it's
                   not a solution--web traffic alone is enough to trigger
                   the problem.  -tom
                   \_ Cap web traffic.
                        \_ get a clue.  -tom
                           \_ dude if web traffic is the problem, the answer is
                              to force proxy/cache it all and shape/cap the
                              traffic.  it'll be slower overall but won't
                              require infinite bandwidth.  you're really quick
                              with that 'get a clue' gun for someone who has
                              yet to propose your own alternative.
                           \_ I am actually curious why you don't consider
                              capping web traffic to be a possible solution?
                              Would a cap on web traffic degrade user
                              experience that badly?  Perhaps the resulting
                              drop in performance would discourage 'casual
                              browsing'?  How much could things be improved
                              via caching?
                                \_ Would you reduce traffic on a busy freeway
                                   by building a wall across one of the lanes?
                                   The web traffic is a good portion of the
                                   fundamental purpose of our network
                                   connection--to degrade its usage is to
                                   degrade the very reason we have the
                                   Internet.  Do some research on "the
                                   tragedy of the commons."  -tom
                                   \_ I'm well acquainted with the tragedy of
                                      the commons.  It is the plague of my
                                      everyday existence.  I'm just wondering
                                      if slightly sluggish web performance
                                      might not change people's browsing
                                      habits.  In effect, I'm not sure if your
                                      freeway analogy really applies here.
                                      Also, what about caching?  That
                                      seems to hold the possibility of
                                      significantly reducing traffic we send
                                      out to the commodity internet.  Or is
                                      there a reason why caching wouldn't help
                                      or is not viable for Berkeley? -dans
                                        \_ Changing people's browsing habits
                                           is exactly what you don't want to
                                           do.  The net exists to be used.
                                           As for caching, we have an Akamai
                                           farm on campus already.
                                           One of the major points of the
                                           original article on the tragedy of
                                           the commons is that there exist
                                           problems with no technical solution.
                                           \_ The net exists to be used not
                                              abused. If you have a bunch of
                                              stupid users who are constantly
                                              fetching uncachable content like
                                              slashdot or any of that web
                                              services bs, the best thing to
                                              is to discourage such behavior
                                              by making it harder/slower to
                                              get data from such places. Once
                                              people stop abusing the net,
                                              the problem is solved.
                                              the problem is solved. This
                                              problem *HAS* a technological
                                              soln., its just that you don't
                                              like that soln. because it means
                                              you and your '1337 buddies can't
                                              get their net fix.
                                              \_ Damn, I just did the math
                                                 with a few conservative
                                                 assumptions and the bits/user
                                                 is insanely high. buncha pigs.
                                                 \_ gee, how many users of
                                                    Berkeley web sites are
                                                    there?  -tom
                                           \_ akamai farm? so what?  that's not
                                              caching what people are using, it
                                              is caching what other people are
                                              paying to have cached.  not quite
                                              the same, eh?
                                              \_ Technically an akamai farm
                                                 can be used as a cache in
                                                 addition to a cdn. I hope
                                                 that TPTB are smart enough
                                                 to do at least that much.
                                                 \_ wanna bet?
                                           \_ Is the web traffic
                                              predominantly upstream or
                                              downstream?  If it's
                                              downstream, could the
                                              bandwidth be supplemented
                                              with load-balancing across
                                              cheap asymmetrical
                                              \_ Our aggregate net usage is
                                                 weighted towards outgoing
                                                 traffic, though the disparity
                                                 isn't enormous.  In any case,
                                                 DSL (if that's what you're
                                                 talking about) isn't "cheap"
                                                 for this kind of usage. -tom
        \_ The Campus Net Wants To Be Free!
        \_ "tragedy of the commons": the newst kewl motd phrase.  just toss
           this phrase around enough and you don't need to research or propose
           any other solutions.
           \_ The Tragedy Of The Commons Daniel McFadden, 09.10.01
              Warning on the Net's shared resources
2021/06/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

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