4/28 This is not a troll, I'm just curious. If Germany still has a pretty
strong Nazi presence (esp from E Germany where unemployment is high
and education is low), how come Japan doesn't seem to have their
Imperialistic equivalence?
\_ HELLO!!!! What the hell are you thinking? There is a much
stronger imperialistic presence in Japan than those of Germany.
Instead of being executed like their German counter part, those who
commit crime against humanities are being WORSHIPPED by many
the top leaders in Japan. Prime Minister of Japan just visited
the Shrine dedicated to those "war heros" of WW2. Even today,
Japanese Text book does not admit that whatever they did was
"aggression."
The relationship between Imperial Japan and American is a lot more
closer than you think. Prior to Pearl Harbor, it's AMERICAN who
supplies scrap iron, petroleums and other war material to Japan
while Japanese Imperial Army was ravaging throughout the Northen/
North Eastern China. After Japanese Surroundered, American decided
to leverage Japan to counter the raise of Communist power in China.
By doing so, American pratically forgave Japan and its crime against
China and the rest of the Asia. This policy is enforced until this
day. Consider Japan never even admit that they were at fault at
first place, consider that Japan has killed more than 20 million
Chinese during the war, which they shows no remorse nor slight
hint of apologistic attitude toward it. This would only fuel the
ultra-nationalist sentiment in the mainland China itself.
American, whose policy has been closely aligned with Japan both
before and after WW2, who has been extremely lenient toward the
crime which Japan committed, is being logically viewed as the
imperialist corporate today. -kngharv
\_ so where are the pro-Japanese pro-Imperial dominance
and pro-expansionist/pro-war protests?
\_ They happened on a fairly regular basis while I was
there and were reported in the news. We just
don't hear about it here. Awhile ago, a far right
group assassinated the mayor of Nagasaki for being too
critical of Japan's past conduct, among other things.
-- ulysses
\_ You can also read Chinese, Hong Kong, Taiwan or Korean
news media if you want to keep up with these. They
pay much more attention to Imperial-Japanese-related
events than the US media does.
\_ The Japanese are our friends. They like golf. We
like golf. The Japanese are our friends. I'll bet
Bin Laden doesn't play golf.
\_ Hey what'd you expect? After a good bit of moral blindness as
seen below on this thread, suddenly the US has something to
apologise for and Japan is all victims. Weird. Go figure. Cal.
\_ Ever see all the war memorials dedicated to their veterans? Ever
see them apologize? War veterans who got away passed into ranks of
politicians. They'll never apologize for Bataan, just as much as
the U.S. will never apologize for Hiroshima. [motd formatd]
\_ The US has nothing to apologize for. The Japanese do.
\_ you're an idiot.
\_ Uh yeah you sure showed me! When did they start letting
third graders into Cal? Get off your dad's computer.
\_ it was a fucking nuclear bomb you idiot. your post
didn't warrant an explanation.
\_ Yes, it was a very high yield radiation bomb. And?
So what? Maybe you'd prefer the higher death tolls
on *both* sides from a conventional invasion? Yes,
it does warrant a real reply. You're
intellectually weak. "It was a nuclear bomb" is
not an answer to anything. I await your ignorant
reply, although I honestly expect you'll either
censor the whole thing or just insult me again. I
again say the US has *nothing* to be sorry for and
Japan has *much* to be sorry for and has yet to come
to grips with the crimes they committed in the 30s
and 40s.
\_ Hiroshima and Nagasaki were civilian targets.
1/4M civilians were killed in violation of the
Geneva convention. This is something we should
regret, even if Japan as a country deserved it.
Would you nuke Baghdad to teach Hussein a
lesson? -!OP
\_ Imperial Japan was going to use 'civilians'
in the defense of the islands from US
invasion. Due to excessive propaganda, this
was mostly voluntary. There were no civilians
on the islands at the time.
\_ even if this is true, which i'm not
entirely convinced of, how can you
rationalize the second bomb?
\_ They hadn't surrendered yet. The
situation hadn't changed.
\_ This wasn't about 'teaching them a lesson'.
You're again being intellectually dishonest.
It was about ending the war asap with as few
deaths on both sides as possible and you know
it. You're now veering into troll territory.
And no I don't favor nuking Baghdad at this
time but if doing so would save more lives
than not doing so I would be in favor.
\_ *I'm* veering into troll territory?
Japan was already trying to surrender
\_ Please explain how one 'tries' to
surrender and provide URL.
\_ By negotiating via a third party.
http://www.lehman.cuny.edu/litstudies/programs/MotionWeb/webassign/gar.html
\_ I read this, and although
it suggests that the japanese
were considering surrender, I
did not see conclusive evidence
that they had started negotiating.
Try Again.
\_ I just got done reading the whole
thing also. I also didn't see
where it says anything like you
claim it does. Ya know, when you
post a URL you better make sure it
says what you think it says. Some
of us actually read entire URLs.
when we nuked them. If we were really
trying to save civilian lives, we would
have accepted their terms. It is pretty
\_ You mean the terms where we just go
away and they get to keep their evil
slave ridden raping imperial empire?
The one soaking in the blood of innocent
Chinese? Even the Nazis in Nanking
were shocked by what the Japanese did.
\_ Any URL on "the Nazis in Nanking were
shocked ..." part? Thanks. --- yuen
\_ History Channel. The Nazis were
running a medical facility/camp in
one part of the city. The Nazi Dr
running the place wrote in his
personal diaries and letters home
how sickening it was and also
took action to keep the Japanese
from entering his 'sanctuary'. I
could find the name with some
research if this isn't enough for
you.
clear we were positioning ourselves for
post-WWII (cold war) advantage, as well
as ensuring that the Emperor would never
\_ Of course we didn't want the Emperor
in place, duh. What's wrong with that?
You make it sound like the Emperor was
a good thing in some bizarre way.
rise to power again. In hindsight, they
were probably both good reasons, but it
was by no means clear at the time.
\_ It was quite clear at the time. Read
a history book published outside Japan.
Nonetheless, the massacre of hundreds of
thousand of innocents should be dismissed
so lightly.
\_ It wasn't a massacre. It was the
strategic killing of hundreds of
thousands (I'll grant those who died
later from radiation, etc). I don't
dismiss it lightly. I don't dismiss it
all. It was a very tough call and we
did the right thing and have nothing
to be sorry about morally. The Japanese
have lots to be sorry about morally and
have yet to own up to 99% of it. Please
don't put words in my mouth. I take
the death of hundreds of thousands very
very seriously which is why I don't
make the trivial "nuke = bad" equation.
The dead don't care how they died. BTW,
are you aware of the fire bombing we did
in Germany? We targetted civilian areas
under the principle that civilians are
a strategic resource bc they're the ones
who build the hardware and supply the
food, clothing, fuel, etc, that keeps
the military running. Do you feel the
same about the 'depopulation' bombing
we did as the two nukes in Japan?
Not to mention, the Dresden bombing killed around _/
200,000 people which is more than twice the number
of dead from Hiroshima. But since it wasn't nuclear
weapons no one cares.
\_ Japanese aggression passed into the economic sector.
Unfortunately, it was just as unsuccessful there. Witness the
current state of their economy.
\_ Suckers got cleaned out on the golf course thing.
\_ They do.
\_ Russia recently seems to have a strong neo-Nazi presence in form of
"skinheads" in the large cities. Who'd think that would ever
happen?
\_ One of the few good things the communists did was suppress all
forms of blatant racism although they did keep track of ethnic
demographics. Officially they had 15 groups.
\_ Except state-sponsored racism, of course. Ever tried to get
admitted to a good Soviet university as a Jew?
\_ Well yeah sure they still mistreated Jews but Jews run
the world and oppress everyone they encounter so there's
no such thing as racism against Jews. They're just trying
to restore balance betwee the Jews and those they oppress,
so it's ok.
\_ Sort of like how African Americans can't be racist
because they're an historically oppressed minority?
\_ The Communists also broke the back of religion in
Russia and replaced it with rationalism, which is
no small feat.
\_ Not really. Orthodox Christianity is making a comeback
in a major way in Russia. You can't force people into
progress against their wills.
\_ And the Catholic Church is making a big move into
Orthodox territory too. As far as progess goes, I
don't consider all religion bad or all atheism good.
I'm an atheiest but I do understand how religion and
belief in a higher power can help an otherwise broken
people get through one more day without resorting to
the bottle or other killers. There's a good reason
for the insanely high alcohol related death rates in
Russia/Former Soviet States.
\_ is religion good for anything else?
\_ IMO, not really. I don't believe it should be
used to keep people down but people who are
already down are often better off with it than
without it. --atheist
\_ I read a few months ago that the Cathonic the
Orthodox Churches were in talks towards
re-unification. |
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