Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 24631
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2021/10/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/25   

2002/4/29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:24631 Activity:insanely high
4/28    This is not a troll, I'm just curious. If Germany still has a pretty
        strong Nazi presence (esp from E Germany where unemployment is high
        and education is low), how come Japan doesn't seem to have their
        Imperialistic equivalence?
       \_ HELLO!!!! What the hell are you thinking?  There is a much
           stronger imperialistic presence in Japan than those of Germany.
           Instead of being executed like their German counter part, those who
           commit crime against humanities are being WORSHIPPED by many
           the top leaders in Japan.  Prime Minister of Japan just visited
           the Shrine dedicated to those "war heros" of WW2.  Even today,
           Japanese Text book does not admit that whatever they did was
           "aggression."
           The relationship between Imperial Japan and American is a lot more
           closer than you think.  Prior to Pearl Harbor, it's AMERICAN who
           supplies scrap iron, petroleums and other war material to Japan
           while Japanese Imperial Army was ravaging throughout the Northen/
           North Eastern China.  After Japanese Surroundered, American decided
           to leverage Japan to counter the raise of Communist power in China.
           By doing so, American pratically forgave Japan and its crime against
           China and the rest of the Asia.  This policy is enforced until this
           day.  Consider Japan never even admit that they were at fault at
           first place, consider that Japan has killed more than 20 million
           Chinese during the war, which they shows no remorse nor slight
           hint of apologistic attitude toward it.  This would only fuel the
           ultra-nationalist sentiment in the mainland China itself.
           American, whose policy has been closely aligned with Japan both
           before and after WW2, who has been extremely lenient toward the
           crime which Japan committed, is being logically viewed as the
           imperialist corporate today.                 -kngharv
                \_ so where are the pro-Japanese pro-Imperial dominance
                   and pro-expansionist/pro-war protests?
                   \_ They happened on a fairly regular basis while I was
                      there and were reported in the news. We just
                      don't hear about it here. Awhile ago, a far right
                      group assassinated the mayor of Nagasaki for being too
                      critical of Japan's past conduct, among other things.
                        -- ulysses
                      \_ You can also read Chinese, Hong Kong, Taiwan or Korean
                         news media if you want to keep up with these.  They
                         pay much more attention to Imperial-Japanese-related
                         events than the US media does.
                         \_ The Japanese are our friends.  They like golf.  We
                            like golf.  The Japanese are our friends.  I'll bet
                            Bin Laden doesn't play golf.
           \_ Hey what'd you expect?  After a good bit of moral blindness as
              seen below on this thread, suddenly the US has something to
              apologise for and Japan is all victims. Weird. Go figure. Cal.
        \_ Ever see all the war memorials dedicated to their veterans? Ever
           see them apologize? War veterans who got away passed into ranks of
           politicians.  They'll never apologize for Bataan, just as much as
           the U.S. will never apologize for Hiroshima. [motd formatd]
           \_ The US has nothing to apologize for.  The Japanese do.
              \_ you're an idiot.
                 \_ Uh yeah you sure showed me!  When did they start letting
                    third graders into Cal?  Get off your dad's computer.
                    \_ it was a fucking nuclear bomb you idiot. your post
                        didn't warrant an explanation.
                        \_ Yes, it was a very high yield radiation bomb.  And?
                           So what?  Maybe you'd prefer the higher death tolls
                           on *both* sides from a conventional invasion?  Yes,
                           it does warrant a real reply.  You're
                           intellectually weak.  "It was a nuclear bomb" is
                           not an answer to anything.  I await your ignorant
                           reply, although I honestly expect you'll either
                           censor the whole thing or just insult me again.  I
                           again say the US has *nothing* to be sorry for and
                           Japan has *much* to be sorry for and has yet to come
                           to grips with the crimes they committed in the 30s
                           and 40s.
                           \_ Hiroshima and Nagasaki were civilian targets.
                              1/4M civilians were killed in violation of the
                              Geneva convention. This is something we should
                              regret, even if Japan as a country deserved it.
                              Would you nuke Baghdad to teach Hussein a
                              lesson? -!OP
                              \_ Imperial Japan was going to use 'civilians'
                                 in the defense of the islands from US
                                 invasion.  Due to excessive propaganda, this

                                 was mostly voluntary.  There were no civilians
                                 on the islands at the time.
                                 \_ even if this is true, which i'm not
                                    entirely convinced of, how can you
                                    rationalize the second bomb?
                                    \_ They hadn't surrendered yet.  The
                                       situation hadn't changed.
                              \_ This wasn't about 'teaching them a lesson'.
                                 You're again being intellectually dishonest.
                                 It was about ending the war asap with as few
                                 deaths on both sides as possible and you know
                                 it.  You're now veering into troll territory.
                                 And no I don't favor nuking Baghdad at this
                                 time but if doing so would save more lives
                                 than not doing so I would be in favor.
                                 \_ *I'm* veering into troll territory?
                                    Japan was already trying to surrender
                                    \_ Please explain how one 'tries' to
                                       surrender and provide URL.
                                       \_ By negotiating via a third party.
 http://www.lehman.cuny.edu/litstudies/programs/MotionWeb/webassign/gar.html
                                          \_ I read this, and although
                                             it suggests that the japanese
                                             were considering surrender, I
                                             did not see conclusive evidence
                                             that they had started negotiating.
                                             Try Again.
                                          \_ I just got done reading the whole
                                             thing also.  I also didn't see
                                             where it says anything like you
                                             claim it does.  Ya know, when you
                                             post a URL you better make sure it
                                             says what you think it says.  Some
                                             of us actually read entire URLs.
                                    when we nuked them. If we were really
                                    trying to save civilian lives, we would
                                    have accepted their terms. It is pretty
                                    \_ You mean the terms where we just go
                                       away and they get to keep their evil
                                       slave ridden raping imperial empire?
                                       The one soaking in the blood of innocent
                                       Chinese?  Even the Nazis in Nanking
                                       were shocked by what the Japanese did.
                                       \_ Any URL on "the Nazis in Nanking were
                                          shocked ..." part?  Thanks.  --- yuen
                                          \_ History Channel.  The Nazis were
                                             running a medical facility/camp in
                                             one part of the city.  The Nazi Dr
                                             running the place wrote in his
                                             personal diaries and letters home
                                             how sickening it was and also
                                             took action to keep the Japanese
                                             from entering his 'sanctuary'.  I
                                             could find the name with some
                                             research if this isn't enough for
                                             you.
                                    clear we were positioning ourselves for
                                    post-WWII (cold war) advantage, as well
                                    as ensuring that the Emperor would never
                                    \_ Of course we didn't want the Emperor
                                       in place, duh.  What's wrong with that?
                                       You make it sound like the Emperor was
                                       a good thing in some bizarre way.
                                    rise to power again. In hindsight, they
                                    were probably both good reasons, but it
                                    was by no means clear at the time.
                                    \_ It was quite clear at the time.  Read
                                       a history book published outside Japan.
                                    Nonetheless, the massacre of hundreds of
                                    thousand of innocents should be dismissed
                                    so lightly.
                                    \_ It wasn't a massacre.  It was the
                                       strategic killing of hundreds of
                                       thousands (I'll grant those who died
                                       later from radiation, etc).  I don't
                                       dismiss it lightly.  I don't dismiss it
                                       all.  It was a very tough call and we
                                       did the right thing and have nothing
                                       to be sorry about morally.  The Japanese
                                       have lots to be sorry about morally and
                                       have yet to own up to 99% of it.  Please
                                       don't put words in my mouth.  I take
                                       the death of hundreds of thousands very
                                       very seriously which is why I don't
                                       make the trivial "nuke = bad" equation.
                                       The dead don't care how they died. BTW,
                                       are you aware of the fire bombing we did
                                       in Germany?  We targetted civilian areas
                                       under the principle that civilians are
                                       a strategic resource bc they're the ones
                                       who build the hardware and supply the
                                       food, clothing, fuel, etc, that keeps
                                       the military running.  Do you feel the
                                       same about the 'depopulation' bombing
                                       we did as the two nukes in Japan?
                         Not to mention, the Dresden bombing killed around _/
                         200,000 people which is more than twice the number
                         of dead from Hiroshima. But since it wasn't nuclear
                         weapons no one cares.
        \_ Japanese aggression passed into the economic sector.
           Unfortunately, it was just as unsuccessful there.  Witness the
           current state of their economy.
           \_ Suckers got cleaned out on the golf course thing.
        \_ They do.
        \_ Russia recently seems to have a strong neo-Nazi presence in form of
           "skinheads" in the large cities. Who'd think that would ever
           happen?
           \_ One of the few good things the communists did was suppress all
              forms of blatant racism although they did keep track of ethnic
              demographics.  Officially they had 15 groups.
              \_ Except state-sponsored racism, of course.  Ever tried to get
                 admitted to a good Soviet university as a Jew?
                 \_ Well yeah sure they still mistreated Jews but Jews run
                    the world and oppress everyone they encounter so there's
                    no such thing as racism against Jews.  They're just trying
                    to restore balance betwee the Jews and those they oppress,
                    so it's ok.
                    \_ Sort of like how African Americans can't be racist
                       because they're an historically oppressed minority?
                \_ The Communists also broke the back of religion in
                   Russia and replaced it with rationalism, which is
                   no small feat.
                   \_ Not really.  Orthodox Christianity is making a comeback
                      in a major way in Russia.  You can't force people into
                      progress against their wills.
                      \_ And the Catholic Church is making a big move into
                         Orthodox territory too.  As far as progess goes, I
                         don't consider all religion bad or all atheism good.
                         I'm an atheiest but I do understand how religion and
                         belief in a higher power can help an otherwise broken
                         people get through one more day without resorting to
                         the bottle or other killers.  There's a good reason
                         for the insanely high alcohol related death rates in
                         Russia/Former Soviet States.
                         \_ is religion good for anything else?
                            \_ IMO, not really.  I don't believe it should be
                               used to keep people down but people who are
                               already down are often better off with it than
                               without it.  --atheist
                         \_ I read a few months ago that the Cathonic the
                            Orthodox Churches were in talks towards
                            re-unification.
2021/10/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/25   

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