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| 5/25 |
| 2002/4/17-18 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24463 Activity:insanely high |
4/17 Is it possible for a politician or journalist to say that he/she is
against foreign aid to Israel without being called a Nazi? That
money is starting to seem like an entitlement, like welfare or
social security.
\_ no one seems to have mentioned the USS Liberty yet, so
i'll just mention it now. consider it mentioned.
\_ not possible. We have too many rich politicians who are jews,
hail to democracy.
\_ yeah fuck those jews for participating!
\_ Is that a question?
\_ Honestly, now I can understand what were all these anti-Jewish
sentimentalism were all about before WW2. Jewish is an invisible
minorities in the society that dictates our nation's foreign
policy. Because of them, US is the only Israel's ally in this
conflict, totally disregards UN resolutions and other international
law.
US can EASILY control Israel's behavior by just stop the flow
of our AIDs, or even call upon temporary economic sanction until
Israel pull out of Westbanks (both troops and settlement). But
instead, we just demand cease fire. Every cease fire in the past
only yields more and more of settlement, and you blame Palestinian
for not giving up their only card on their hand?
We have been unconditionally support of Israel since 1948.
This put US in a very bad position in terms of being a mediator
aid.
I honstly think that Powell's trip was just a show to American
people that Bush is trying to do something.
\_ Yes! The Zionist Conspiracy folks have arrived! Sweet! *Now*
you have seen the real Nazis hit the motd. Glad you could show.
\_ Tell us about ZOG and what you learned from reading Meinkampf.
\_ Not if you are Pat Buchanan. We give more to Egypt BTW.
\_ Not true. Military + econ = 3B/yr
Aid to Egypt is only 2B/yr.
\_ Even the new east span of the
Bay Bridge costs more than that.
And that's not even a whole
bridge.
\- who dont you compute the
per capita aid to israel.
[meaning per israeli person]
\_ Assuming Israel has 4
million people, it would be
$750 per year per person.
For US, it would be $10 per
year per person. Not much,
but that's just the official
aid. I read that US gives
isn't a special case. We're supporting the world.
a lot of weapons to Israel
for free, not to mention
technological transfers, etc.
3 billion per year is equal
to 8.2 million per day.
That's just like 40 nice
little houses every day.
\_ Tech: actually they take
our planes, improve them
and tell us how to do it.
\_ Nah, that's more true
of armor than
aircraft.
\_ F15. Look it up.
\_ Yes, they do that a
little, but mostly
it goes the other
way.
\_ How much tech or
other quality
work do we get from
the arabs? How
about intelligence?
Obviously not
getting enough int.
help. 9/11.
\_
Arabs have oil, and that's
what we need. Our aid to
Israel is supposed to help
them defend themselves and
help us maintain a military
presense in the oil-rich
region. Our aid is not for
the Israelites to behave
like assholes and bullies.
\_ You suggest we send ovens
instead of weapons? Wake
up. No matter what the
Israelis do, the Arabs want
them dead. 1948, 1967, 1973,
etc. Once the oil runs out
or we switch to something
else, the arabs are going
back to sand and camels
while Israel will continue
on as a first world
democracy. While you're
reading up on 48,67,73, you
should look up how many
Arabs killed other Arabs in
the last 50+ years and also
see what Jordan did to them
up to 67. Ignorance is
bliss, eh?
\_ No, I suggest we stop
aid to Israel to show
them who's the boss.
Israel won't fall to
Arabs anytime soon. In
fact it can kick their
ass easily. In fact,
it can even kick our ass
for a while (see above
about F-15). I think
they should listen to
us instead of being
bullies and assholes.
\- as far as i know aid to israel
has always exceeded aid to egypt
after camp david and assume before
as well. i believe aid to both was
reduced not long ago, so it is
possible the philippines gets more
aid but they certainly have more
reason to feel the US "owes" them.
\_ Unless that jewish student who protested at Sproul on the
Palestinan side against Isarel becomes a politician. I saw him on
TV.
\_ *GREAT* troll! You of course completely dismiss the money we give
to Egypt and the fact that they both get money going back to the
Camp David accords in the late 70's which brought official peace
between the two countries. You earn a cookie and *2* points!
\_ There, you have your answer. You might be called a "troll"
instead of a "Nazi," but obviously Isreal is entitled to
US foreign aid (which they have been getting for a lot
longer than since Camp David).
\_ They're entitled to it by treaty. It is in the interests
of the US to assist any Western nation as well and thus we
give various forms of aid going back to before our entry in
WWII to Europe, post-WWII Japan, SKorea, and others. Israel
isn't a special case. We're supporting the world. The amount
going to Israel is peanuts.
\- per capita aid to israel stands way way way out.
the fact that americans spend more on frozen pizza and
lipstick is another matter. --psb
\_ Per capita isn't meaningful because this isn't about
buying Israeli citizens pizza and lipstick. It's about
tanks and jets. No matter how many people you have you
still need a certain amount of hardware to defend a
certain land area when your enemies surround you, have
sworn to kill all of you, and out number you a few
hundred million to 6 million. Anyway, all this math
is hard. Let's go shopping!
\_ The US has spent over $20,000 per Isreali citizen
with nothing but headache to show for it. What is
this, the Eighth Crusade? Why does what it got
spent on matter?
\_ You're right. It would be cheaper to buy ovens
and ship them to their neighbors. Good idea.
\- wouldnt it be cheaper to save somalis?
\_ well, considering that a 9mm bullet only
costs a few tenths of a cent to mass
produce, then yes. It's far cheaper to
save somalis.
\_ Save Somalis from what? Themselves? What
for?
\_ Hmm, 4 out of 5 head scientists who gave us nukes were Jewish,
maybe we are just repaying them . . . ya think?
But seriously, we are supporting the only Jewish state (yes, only
one, can you count how many muslim and christian states there are)
and a western democracy at that. PS: Did you know that the first
Intel plant able to make the Pentium IV was in Israel? It seems
they were the only one who could print such a detailed chip.
Furthermore, have you noticed how many times the enemies of Israel
have lied in their estimates? I say shame on us for believing such
crap and shame on CNN/NYT for only getting one source in many
cases. PPS: Shame on France, what is this, the return of the
Vichy government? They are only looking to support their weapons
sales and their need for oil (we actually can support ourself in
that regard) . . . Oh and do read up on who started attacking who,
and also why all the Palestinians voluntarily left their homes,
they were never kicked out! Meanwhile plenty of jews were kicked
out of Iran, Iraq, Eqypt, and so forth (not to mention Poland,
Germany, Spain, Italy, etc). If you prick us, do we not bleed?
\_ http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/palestine/refugeeFacts.html
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/qpalnew/glossarycollapsible.htm
\_ yes, I can find one-sided accounts as well, but many
Palestinians fled their homes so that the arab countries could
fulfill their promise of pushing israel into the sea and
returning palestine to them. The Palestinians have been
treated like shit by Jordan and Syria as well, why don't any
UN resolutions talk about that? Hmmm, I wonder, is it because
France, Russia, China (all have treated [or help others treat]
jews like scum) sit on the security council. Also what about
the right for jews to return to their homes. FUCK, I WANT MY
LAND BACK IN BARCELONA!! My family chose to flee during the
inquisition instead of the convert or die options they gave us.
Also, are you ready to give your home back to that Mexican
family our government kicked out so many years ago--I didn't
think so!
\_ I see. So since it happened to the Jews, it's ok for Jews to
do it to Palestinians? Well at least you admit it.
\_ Thanks for putting words in my mouth. Here is a great
treatment of the refugee problem (though he throws "in my
opinion" around to much. Ultimately (if you are lazy) he
attributes the problem to both sides:
http://www.ajds.org.au/mendes.htm
Another thought, Israel is 20% Arab and they have Arab
leaders in the Knesset, some of which have called votes
to end the existance of Israel . . . now that's democracy.
If Israel was really trying to "cleanse" themselves of
Arabs, why is 1/5th of their population arab? |
| 5/25 |
|
| www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/palestine/refugeeFacts.html -> www.globalexchange.org/countries/palestine/refugeeFacts.html There are now at least 6 million refugees, the oldest of whom have been waiting for more than 50 years to return home. The forced expulsion of Palestinians from their homeland in 1948 resulted from the birth of the state of Israel and is a core injury at the heart of the dispute between Palestinians and Israelis. Acknowledgement and a just resolution of these injuries will be at the heart of any lasting peace between Palestinians and Israelis. The tragic history of the Palestinian refugees persisted through the latter half of the 20th century and is far from resolution at the start of the new century. Below you will find an outline of the history and present situation of the Palestinian refugees, provided with the humble recognition of the abundant scholarship, commentary, and complexity that are perforce absent from any summary. HISTORICAL BACKGROUND & CURRENT CONDITIONS Conflict between Palestinians and Israelis stems from the conflicting claims of the two groups to the same territory. In light of post-WWII tensions in British controlled Palestine, the newborn United Nations passed Resolution 181 in 1947: a partition plan to divide the territory between Palestinian Arabs and Jewish immigrants. Palestinians resisted the partition plan, which assigned the smaller Jewish population a larger territory. During this time, Jewish terror groups intensified their attacks on Palestinian civilians and began driving them from their homes and villages. In 1948, Zionist leaders declared the new state of Israel and aggressively seized the offensive in guerrilla warfare against the Palestinians. Subsequent Israeli attacks on Palestinian towns and villages during this first Arab-Israeli War of 1948-49 served to expand the territory under Jewish control and drastically reduce the Palestinian population in its interior. For example: * Israeli forces committed at least 34 atrocities , including the massacre at Deir Yasin, which killed 254 men, women, and children. In addition, 13,000 Palestinians were killed, 418 Palestinian villages were completely depopulated, and half of all villages in Palestine were physically destroyed. The remaining third scattered throughout Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and other parts of the world. In 1967 Palestinians were once again forced to flee war as victorious Israeli forces occupied portions of Palestinian territory that were captured by Jordanian and Egyptian forces in the 1948 war. The 1967 War impacted refugees living within areas attacked and/or annexed by Israel: the West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem, the Golan Heights, and the Sinai Peninsula. Since the so-called "Six Day War," Israel's actions in the occupied territories have maximized territorial gains while reducing the numbers of, or altogether displacing, Palestinian residents via annexations and an ongoing settlement policy that violates both UN Security Council resolutions and the Geneva Convention. In response to the massacre and under pressure from its own peace movement, the Israeli government set up the Kahan Commission to investigate. Displays of Palestinian nationalism are often met with collective punishments, including the closure of communities, measures preventing Palestinians from holding steady employment, curfews (which sometimes place whole refugee camps under house arrest for months at a time), and the denial of basic utilities such as electricity and water service. Thousands of acres owned by Palestinians have been confiscated to construct Israeli settlements. In the 1970s and 1980s, Israeli policy in the Occupied Territories was designed to suppress political activity and isolate the population from Palestinian organizations and activists abroad. Despite systematic Israeli repression, the occupied population nevertheless established themselves as leaders of the Palestinian struggle for national liberation when, in 1987, they launched the first Palestinian Intifada ("shaking-off" in Arabic), which lasted until 1991. INTERNATIONAL RECOGNITION OF PALESTINIAN REFUGEE RIGHTS During the past 50 years, the international community has repeatedly called for a resolution to the refugee problem. The most important and explicit support for the rights of Palestinian refugees is UN resolution 194 signed in 1948. Resolution 194 was adopted only six months before Israel's admission as a member of the United Nations (GA Resolution 273, 11 May 1949). Israel's admission was conditioned by an Israeli commitment to carry out the obligations under the UN charter and United Nation resolutions, including Resolution 194. In the absence of a solution to the Palestinian refugee problem by the international community, the General Assembly has repeatedly renewed UNRWA's mandate, most recently extending it until June 30, 2005. The experience of refugee life in the UNRWA camps has proven pivotal in the emergence of a distinct camp culture and a Palestinian identity. In "the permanence of transience" that defines refugee life, a new value is placed on older ties of family, clan, and village. Although some refugees possess the economic means to establish themselves in their host countries, many remain in the camps. The situation of refugees in Gaza, the West Bank, and Lebanon, where refugees are denied basic civil rights, is particularly harsh. Population density and unemployment rates within Palestinian refugee camps are among the highest in the world, resulting in chronic poverty, overcrowding, a low standard of living, and a general sense of powerlessness and despair. This dispersion has made it difficult to determine exactly how many Palestinians there are worldwide, but the bulk live in the West Bank & Gaza and the neighboring countries of Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. The legal status, social class, and standard of living of Palestinians vary enormously depending on local conditions. Below you will find a summary of some of the best survey data we have been able to find on where and how Palestinians live. Most of the people who fled to the Gaza Strip as a result of the 1948 Arab-Israeli war were from Jaffa, towns and villages south of Jaffa, and from the Beersheva area in the Negev Desert. Under occupation and after the Oslo process alike, camp refugees have suffered tremendously from poverty, a shortage of services, and unemployment. UNRWA has been the prime provider of services, but Israeli authorities have undermined economic and civic development through closures, checkpoints, curfews, and harassment. According to UNRWA's 2002 figures, there are 626,532 registered refugees. While one quarter of West Bank refugees live in nineteen recognized refugee camps, the majority live in towns and villages. Like their Gaza counterparts, camp residents have been hit hard by closures imposed on the West Bank by the Israeli authorities. Subsequently, unemployment has risen and socio-economic conditions in the camps have deteriorated. Jordan Jordan has received the largest number of Palestinian refugees. An estimated 100,000 of all refugees fled across the Jordan River in 1948. A large majority of Palestinians are Jordanian citizens. Since the return of over 300,000 Palestinians from Kuwait in 1991, between 45% and 70% of all Jordanians are Palestinians from the West Bank. Although Palestinians suffer from discrimination and a large number still live in camps, Jordan has granted full citizenship to the Palestinian refugees and their descendents. Lebanon According to UNRWA 2002 figures, there are 387,043 Palestinian refugees registered with UNRWA in Lebanon, which constitutes 11% of the total number of Palestinian refugees. Lebanon is the host country that is least hospitable to Palestinian refugees. Unlike the Jordanian government, the Lebanese government prevents Palestinians from being absorbed into the community. Palestinians in Lebanon, who constitute about ten percent of the total population there, have faced unique problems since their arrival in 1948. They do not have social and civil rights, and they have a very limited access to the government's public health and educational facilities. The majority of Palestinians rely entirely on UNRWA as the sole provider of education, heal... |
| www.un.org/Depts/dpa/qpalnew/glossarycollapsible.htm Israel-Jordan Armistice Agreement of 1949 formalized the de facto division of the City into the eastern sector, including the Old City, controlled by Jordan, and the western sector, or the new City controlled by the new State of Israel. The 1967 war, which resulted in the occupation by Israel of East Jerusalem, reopened the debate over the two competing claims. The Israeli claim has not been recognized by the international community which rejects the acquisition of territory by war and considers any changes on the ground illegal and invalid. On the other hand, the Palestinians have claimed East Jerusalem as the capital of a future independent State of Palestine to be established in the territories occupied since 1967. The status of the Holy Places has a special significance in that debate and proposals have been made for their internationalization. With the developments in the peace process since 1991, there is great concern that the evolving de facto situation on the ground should not prejudge the outcome of negotiations on the status of the City. That policy has accelerated since the beginning of 1990. The Israeli Government encourages settlers to make their homes in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including Jerusalem. The establishment of Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory has been the subject of various resolutions of the Security Council and the General Assembly. For example, in its 10 resolution 446 (1979) the Security Council determined that the Israeli policy and practice of establishing settlements had no legal validity and constituted a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East. That position was reaffirmed in Security Council 11 resolution 465 (1980) which determined that Israel's policy and practices of settling parts of its population and new immigrants in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem, constitute a flagrant violation of the 12 Fourth Geneva Convention. The Tenth Emergency Special Session of the General Assembly in February 1999 recommended in an overwhelmingly adopted 13 resolution the convening of a conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention to enforce the Convention in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including Jerusalem, and to ensure its respect in accordance with common article 1. The Occupied Palestinian Territory, especially the elevated areas of the West Bank, is endowed with an abundance of renewable water resources compared to the rest of the Middle East. However, Israel's severe restrictions on drilling for water, planting and irrigation placed on the Palestinians have maintained at a low level the amount of water made available to the Palestinian population. Israeli policies ensure that most of the water of the West Bank percolates underground to Israel and that Israeli settlers are provided with preferential access to water resources. As a consequence, a "man-made" water crisis undermines the living conditions of the Palestinian people. A comprehensive and fair allocation of the water resources of the Jordan River basin, West Bank aquifers and the Gaza aquifer remains to be negotiated by the relevant parties. Water is one of several issues which are being dealt with at the multilateral talks. |
| www.ajds.org.au/mendes.htm Contact Us A HISTORICAL CONTROVERSY: THE CAUSES OF THE PALESTINIAN REFUGEE PROBLEM During the 1948 Israeli/Arab war, approximately 500,000 Palestinians fled or were expelled from the territory of Israel/Palestine. The issue of responsibility for the Palestinian exodus has since become one of the most vexed questions of the modern era. The official Israeli view has long been that the Palestinians left voluntarily at the behest of Arab leaders. Accordingly, the Palestinians were responsible for their own exodus and should be resettled in neighbouring Arab countries. In contrast, the Palestinians and Arab States argued that the refugees were driven out by planned and systematic Israeli violence. They demanded the right of the refugees to return to their former homes inside Israel. The on-going Israeli-Arab debate concerning the causes of the exodus has not been merely an academic exercise. Rather, both sides have persistently linked the events of 1948 with their contemporary political claims (Glazer, 1980:96). Prior to the 1967 Six Day War, the contentious issues were the Arab refusal to recognize the State of Israel, and the Israeli refusal to allow the Palestinian refugees to return. Since 1967, the differing versions of the exodus have also influenced debates around the legitimacy of a Palestinian State in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Part one of this essay will trace the history of the Israeli version of exodus. Some consideration will be given to analyzing its influence on international attitudes to the Arab-Israeli conflict, both prior to and after the Six Day War. Part two will examine the history of Palestinian/Arab versions of the exodus. Part three will briefly consider middle-ground versions which have attempted to find a balance between the polarized Israeli and Palestinian versions. Part four will analyze the seminal writings of the Israeli revisionist historian Benny Morris and his influence on the debate. Parts five and six will consider Israeli and Palestinian critiques of Morris. Part seven will briefly discuss the other exodus - that of Jewish refugees from Arab countries. Part One: The Israeli Version 1948-1967 The official Israeli version of the Palestinian exodus first appeared in an October 1948 report to the Israeli Government by Yosef Weitz, director of the Jewish National Fund's Lands Division and Chairman of the Government's Transfer Committee. Weitz wrote that the Arabs expected that their exile would last only a few weeks, after which time they would "return not only to their own homes but also to the houses of the Jews and the Arabs would inherit the possessions" (Morris, 1986d:550-551). Weitz's thesis concerning Arab responsibility for the Palestinian flight was soon adopted by Joseph Schechtman, a prominent American Jewish writer and former confidante of the right-wing Zionist leader, Vladimir Jabotinsky (Khalidi, 1959:22; Schechtman drafted a pamphlet distributed by the Israeli Information Office in New York which claimed that the Palestinian exodus was promoted by the Arab leadership - "the Arab Higher Committee, municipal authorities, local commanders and, at a later stage, by the Arab Governments themselves" (Schechtman, 1952:6). In a later publication, Schechtman quoted a number of alleged statements by Arab leaders and newspapers which appeared to confirm the "Arab orders" thesis (Schechtman, 1963:195-198). These quotes were to become standard fare in Israeli propaganda over the next 30 years. Yet careful analysis would suggest that none of them qualify "as solid historical evidence or proof" of Arab responsibility for the exodus (Morris, 1988). The purpose of the Weitz/Schechtman account was explicitly political: to provide a legal and moral justification for the Israeli refusal to allow the Palestinians to return to their former homes. Conversely, evidence that the Palestinians had been forcibly expelled would strengthen their claims for repatriation and/or compensation (Peretz, 1994:6; The Israeli version of the Palestinian exodus has exerted enormous influence on western opinion, persuading not only Jewish supporters of Israel but also wider political and intellectual elites of the justice of the Israeli case (Kidron, 1988:88; As early as January 1949, Edwin Samuel, a former member of the British colonial administration in Palestine, repeated the Israeli allegation that "the exodus was ordered by the Mufti in order to discredit the Jews and weaken their economy" (Samuel, 1949:13). Similarly, the American journalist Kenneth Bilby wrote in 1950: "The Arab exodus, initially at least, was encouraged by many Arab leaders such as Haj Amin el Husseini, the exiled pro-Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem, and by the Arab Higher Committee from Palestine. These ardent nationalists wanted no Arabs living under Jewish military rule and, additionally, they viewed the first wave of setbacks as merely transitory. Let the Palestine Arabs flee into neighboring countries. It would serve to arouse the other Arab peoples to greater effort, and then when the invasion struck the Palestinians could return to their homes and be compensated for their absence with the property of Jews driven into the sea" (Bilby, 1950:30-31). In 1956, the American military historian Edgar O'Ballance commented on the "unusual complete and voluntary evacuation of the Arabs from their towns and villages as the Jews advanced". According to O'Ballance, "There were several reasons for this mass exodus, perhaps the first being due to the Arab leaders themselves who early in the war had ordered Arabs living on the edges of the mixed areas to evacuate their villages so as to leave the field clear for the Arab Liberation Army to conduct military operations. They convinced the Arabs that their removal would only be for a short time, and that they would be able to return to their homes on the heels of Kaukji's victorious men, when loot and plunder from the Jews would more than compensate for any discomfort they might have to experience" (O'Ballance, 1956:63). Another study by Mizra Khan argued that the Palestinians fled "under orders as part of a deliberate policy to clear areas for the invading Arab armies and to prevent stagnation of the war by the conclusion of local truces" (Khan, 1956:37). An authoritative study of the exodus by the Israeli academic Rony Gabbay also lent some support to the Israeli Government thesis. According to Gabbay, the exodus could be attributed to several diverse factors including the cultural characteristics of Arab society, and direct orders from the Arab Higher Committee to evacuate the civilian population. Gabbay identified three principal motives for the planned evacuation: "A) Knowing that the Arab countries had already committed themselves to send their regular armies into Palestine, evacuation would clear the villages and the adjacent roads for the quick advance of these armies. Infantry as well as air forces would have easier tasks, and would be able to limit their attacks to the Jewish positions, cities and settlements without any danger of hitting Arab populated areas; B) To bring home to the Arab people of the neighbouring countries the reality of war in Palestine and enlist their support; C) To impress the outside world with the fact that no Arab was prepared to acquiesce in the establishment of the State of Israel and live under its rule" (Gabbay, 1959:95-96). Further presentations of the "Arab orders" thesis were made by the American academics William Polk and Edmund Asfour, and by numerous pro-Israel sources (Polk, 1957:293; Even the noted Jewish anti-Zionist Moshe Menuhin accepted the basic legitimacy of the thesis (Menuhin, 1969:109). Perhaps the most influential pro-Israel source of this period was Leon Uris' best-selling novel Exodus (Salt, 1985:60). According to Uris, the Palestinian exodus was caused by the Arab leaders who "wanted the civilian population to leave Palestine as a political issue and a military weapon. The Arab generals planned an annihilation of the Jewish people. Documented proof exists that the Arabs were promised they could return to their homes on the heels of Arab victories to loot the destr... |