Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 23489
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2024/11/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/23   

2002/1/8-9 [Uncategorized] UID:23489 Activity:very high
1/8     stupid question: i just finished reading the Trilogy, and i don't
        get what the two towers are.  clearly one of them is Orthanc, saruman's
        tower, but what is the other one?  Sauron semems to have several
        towers, and I think Gondor has a tower or two.  Aren't there towers
        all over middle earth?  what the hell?  is it Barad Dur?
        \_ I recall reading that it is a reference to Orthanc and Minas Tirith.
           -- ulysses
        \_ minas ithil and minas arnor.  - someone who read the Silmarion.
        \_ It's yermom's twin towers.  They always come in pairs.
           \_ They don't come in paris in the movie Kung Pao.
        \_ I think Minas Tirith and Minas Ithil (renamed Minas Morgul). --dim
        \_ It's just a metaphore.
        \_ Minas Tirith and Minas Ithil (renamed Minas Morgul) for the
           opposition of light and dark, but the two in the book are
           Cirith Ungol (Barad-dur) and Orthanc. Tolkien himself was unhappy
            \_ I think Cirith Ungol != Barad-dur. The first is the orc fortress
           a bit ambiguous. --dim
               guarding the pass (the stairs of Cirith Ungol) and the other is
               the great fortress in the plains of Gorgoroth and the center of
               Sauron's power. I don't have the book with me, though.
               \_ You are right. --dim
                  \_ ...and this was the source of my confusion.  Barad dur
                     seems more important, because the Main Evil Dude lives
                     there, but on the other hand, we never actually see
                     barad dur in the story, unlike cirith ungol, which
                     is pretty important.  thanks for providing the only
                     useful or intelligent answer!  -OP
           with the title because of the ambiguity. I quote: "I am not happy
           at all about the title 'The Two Towers'." It is supposed to be
           a bit ambiguous. It can even be Orthanc and Minas Morgul. --dim
        \_ Found this:
           http://members.cts.com/king/e/erikt/tolkien/2towers.htm
            -- ulysses
        the problem is that the 2 towers can refer to anything DEPENDING on
        what books you've read.  Hell, even the hobbit has Dol Guldur (in
        mirkwood, sauron's 1st attempt to set up power)...  If you read the
        silmarion, it's obvious you're talking about minas *.  if you read
        lotr, then it's maybe barad-dur and minas tirith.  Altho rohas is
        just as important.  Btw: 3 rings for the elven kings went to:
        1. elrond, 2. galadriel, and 3, (Narya the Great) went to Cirdan who
        gave it to Gandalf.
        \_ Narya the Great?  I suppose the others are Nenya the Okay and
           Vilya the Adequate...
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members.cts.com/king/e/erikt/tolkien/2towers.htm
It was his publisher, Unwin, who made/forced the decision to publish his books in three separate volumes and then requested Tolkien to come up with names for these "books". Tolkien agonized somewhat over appropriate titles and under a deadline pressure came up with the names as we have them now. And it was Tolkien who made sketches for each bookcover -making three versions for the second volume called "The Two Towers". The first one showed the Dark Tower of Barad-dur and Minas Tirith. The second version showed Minas Morgul and Orthanc, but had some extra detail on Orthanc depicting its Key and the staff of Saruman. The third and last version by Tolkien is the one at the top of this page. The detail is poor, but at the bottom of Minas Morgul are the Nine Rings of the Nazgul and a crescent moon for Minas Ithil (Tower of the Moon and drawn white), and under Orthanc is the White Hand - the sign of Saruman. As for the meaning of the title of The Two Towers I did some digging in Letters and came up with the following passages as to what Tolkien himself thought of the matter: "The Two Towers gets as near as possible to finding a title to cover the widely divergent Books 3 & 4; On the other hand, in his original design for the jacket of The Two Towers (see #151) the Towers are certainly Orthanc and Minas Morgul. Orthanc is shown as a black tower, three-horned (as seen in Pictures no. It must if there is any real reference in it to Vol II refer to Orthanc and the Tower of Cirith Ungol.