Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 23195
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2025/04/04 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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2001/12/9-10 [Reference/Religion] UID:23195 Activity:high
12/8    http://www.suntimes.com/output/greeley/cst-edt-greel09.html
        Statistics and the ecosystem meltdown.
        \_ I'm not sure a Franciscan monk is where I want to get my
           authoritative interpretation about climatealogical and
           statistical evidence. Nonetheless, I think Bjorn
           \_ Gregor Mendel, Thomas Bayes.
           Lomborg has some good points -- environmentalism is, in some
           ways, about white people feeling better about themselves for
           doing insignificant things and that the world has more pressing
           problems that can be solved very cheaply if people were willing
           to do so. But some of the things Lomborg says are just silly.
           For example, he talks about air pollution and points out that
           it is a phenomenon that has been around for a long time in the
           western world and uses the fact that it is now getting better
           to point out that we are on the right track. Well no duh it's
           getting better. Air pollution ain't getting better because
           we are using more coal and driving more diesel cars. It's getting
           better because western contries have imposed regulations,
           environmental regulations, that improve air quality. Also, most
           conservation is so inexpensive to do and is a great way to both
           save money and help the planet (at least a little), so I can't
           imagine what kind of arguments one could level against it.
           I'm looking forward to a good reader that will have both
           the Lomborg perspective and opposing viewpoints.
           \_ Why does it seem difficult to understand that some people
              don't care about saving money or helping 'the planet'?
              \_ It is not difficult to believe. There are robbers,
                 murderers and rapists in the world, too, that is why
                 good will alone is not enough to create a civil society.
                \_ I suspect the point being that Kyoto isn't going to save
                   anything.  There's nothing in the link about "people don't
                   care about saving money or helping the planet".  I believe
                   all he is saying is that we should be intelligent about how
                   we approach the environment and not just swallow every bit
                   of doom and gloom that comes our way.  I'm old enough to
                   remember being taught in school how we were causing the next
                   ice age and how in our time the planet was going to plunge
                   in to eternal cold.  I remember when they switched to the
                   "it'll either freeze or burn" theory.  And now we're into
                   the "going to hell, burning" theory.  All this is only in
                   the last 25 years and comes from the same people.
                   \_ Computer people say completely different things now
                      about AI than they did 25 years ago.  Does that mean
                      that what they say now about AI is wrong?  No, it means
                      they have new information.  The process of refining
                      hypotheses based on new information is called
                      "science".  -tom
                      \_ What do they say, Tom?
                      \_ When you have pre-determined conclusions and make the
                         science fit the theory it is called "junk science".
                         And yes, tell us what AI people are saying today as
                         opposed to 25 years ago?
              \_ Nothing is difficult to understand about that. My comment
                 wasen't intended to address them, as those people will
                 do whatever they want no matter what. Lomberg isn't
                 addressing them either.
                 \_ Ok whatever.  Make your own thread if you want to be miles
                    off topic.
        \_ What a troll. A letter to the editor written by one person who
           bases his views of the environment on one book. I wonder how many
           books in the bibliography really support his beliefs.
           \_ If you read it and some of the referenced works you might know
              and have something intelligent to say instead of slamming it as
              a troll because you simply don't know.
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Cache (3580 bytes)
www.suntimes.com/output/greeley/cst-edt-greel09.html
It means many different things in your man's comic novel, like ''Houth Castle and Environs'' (a reference to an island and a castle in Dublin Bay). However, some interpreters of Jimmy Joyce say it also means ''Here Comes Everyone'' and stands for the Catholic Church with which you, man, had a lifelong love/hate relationship. In its better moments, it is comprehensive, absorbing language, cultures, customs, religions -- anything that it finds useful in its work. Hence the saying, ''Once a Catholic, always a Catholic,'' is based on solid psychological and cultural grounds. Give the church the first half-dozen years of your life and it will fill you with images and metaphors and stories that are so wonderful you'll never escape them, no matter how hard you try. As Lent and Good Friday turn into Easter amid splendid rituals of fire and water and oil, it might be worthwhile to reflect on how difficult it is to leave the church even if you try. Some Catholics want to exclude all those who disagree with them. However, canon law specifies only two ways of getting out: You must either formally renounce the faith or join another religion. Short of that, you might not be a ''good'' Catholic or a Catholic in ''good standing'' or a ''practicing'' Catholic (a category that canon law does not know). And it's best to leave to God to judge who is good and who is not. Hence it has been the genius of Catholicism (in its better moments, at least) to extend the borders out as far as possible and make them as porous as possible. A more recent development, while not absolutely new, is fascinating. Groups have appeared in the church (including Mel Gibson and his father) who have dispensed with the rest of us -- like the fundamentalist authors of the Apocalypse novels exclude Catholics and Jews from God's mercy. They write me nasty e-mails saying that they are ''orthodox'' Catholics or ''real'' Catholics, by which they mean that they reject the Second Vatican Council. While they are perfectly within their rights as humans and Americans to choose any religion they want, they can't do what they say they are doing. Its resolutions were voted by the overwhelming majority of the Catholic bishops of the world and approved by the pope. If you can reject one of them, then you can reject all of them. Some of them say that there hasn't been a valid pope since Pius XII died. But if you can arbitrarily dismiss any pope you don't like, where will it stop? If you cancel papal elections and ecumenical councils, have you not gone forth from the community? In the old days at the seminary, we would have said ''sapit heresim'': It smells of heresy. However, the boundaries are still porous, still comprehensive even for these new heretics. Other less radical Catholics in effect reject the council, including some cardinals in the Vatican, some bishops, and some of the younger, cassock- and biretta-wearing priests. But if the Holy Spirit did abandon the pope and the universal episcopate, have not the gates of hell already prevailed against the church? In fact, as I argue in my study ''Old Wine in New Wineskins,'' the council made only a few moderate changes in the church. However, these changes disproved the argument that the church could not change, would not change, should not change. Hence the council destabilized the church structures that had persisted since the French Revolution. The leadership of the church did not know and mostly still does not know what to do about the confusion. Sometimes it looks to me like they've lost their faith in the Holy Spirit.