Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 22944
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2025/04/03 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
4/3     

2001/11/6 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:22944 Activity:very high
11/5    Protest the xenophobic Feinstein/Kyl legislation targeted at
        foreign students.
          That's THIS THURSDAY! Starts at 4:00 pm in SF (Montgomery Street
        Bart), One Post Street. Meet at the Berkeley Bart at 3:00/3:15 to
        go in together.
                  Also, afterward, if anyone is interested, there is an action
        at KRON TV organized by the SF Town Hall Committee to Stop War and
        Racism.
        **Millions at Risk of Starvation as Winter Approaches**
        \_ just because we attack another country who aren't white, that
        automatically makes us racists? perhaps you are the racist
           \_ That has nothing to do with US military action in Afghanistan
              you moron. It has to do with the proposal on student visas.
              \_ moron, see the "also.."
        \_ Liberal application of hyperbole makes liberals harder to take
           seriously.  Why don't you guys try sounding more intelligent?
        \_ when is the simpson's halloween special?
           \_ Tomorrow according to http://snpp.com.
        \_ can you not see the link between war and racism? war engenders
           bravado, which immediately leads the rest of you fucks to say
           shit like "yeah, kill all those  sand niggers". that's why.
           \_ yeah, kill all those infidels
        \_ http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/11/05/ED128789.DTL
           what stanfurd protesters don't understand
        \_ Frankly I'd like to see the money going to educate foreigners
           redirected for US citizens.  Does this make me a xenophobe?
           We (and allies) feed, protect, develop and educate the
           world... what more do you want?   Why are you race baiting-
           just admit it you want a free lunch.  You're as bad as
           as Jackson and Sharpton.  Evil imperialistic America - uh huh.
           \_ no US money is spent on foreign students you idiot.  Foreign
              students pay out of state tuition.  If they're grad students
              they have to earn their scholarship or work as a TA like
              everybody else.  Isn't there a shortage of TAs?
              \_ There is only a shortage of TAs because the flood
                 of foreign students has driven down wages and working
                 conditions for domestic TAs.
              \_ I know a few foreign students who got a lot of money from
                 the US in various forms...
2025/04/03 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
4/3     

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2010/7/20-8/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53889 Activity:low
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www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/11/05/ED128789.DTL
As one student after another took to the microphones to implore the country to "stop the bombing" and "end aggression against the Afghan people," my heart sank. This and other protests suggest that activists across the country have failed to understand that everything changed September 11, including the mission of peace. Abolitionists in the 19th century joined the Union army's campaign to smash the institution of slavery. The Abraham Lincoln Brigade traveled Spain in the 1930s to challenge the tyranny of Gen. After Pearl Harbor was attacked, leftists like Paul Robeson wrote poignantly in the Nation to urge all seekers of social justice to fight fascism. And during the 1970s and 1980s, progressives like myself defended the right of resistance movements, from the African National Congress to the Sandinistas, to use force to prevent massive human rights violations. Today, the peace movement condemns force in any form, even if the purpose is to prevent the future deaths of innocents from terrorism. It prefers waving banners that piously proclaim "No More Innocent Victims," even as new cases of innocents being contaminated with potentially lethal anthrax spores are uncovered every day. Conservative commentators ridicule the peaceniks for naive pacifism, but the more fundamental problem -- and it has to be admitted-- is a deep distrust of all that is American. During my tenure as director of the progressive think tank, the Institute for Policy Studies, I once debated the former director, Bob Borosage, on whether the United States should intervene in Bosnia to stop genocide there. My position was that in an ever more interdependent planet, Americans have an obligation to stop gross abuses wherever they occur, and that the best way of doing so was to build a multinational capacity for humanitarian interventions. Borosage's position, which the majority of my colleagues seemed to embrace, was that the United States should stay out. His concern, instead, was the familiar isolationist argument that Americans should attend to urgent problems at home. Plus, even if intervention on the cheap were possible, the United States simply could not be trusted to use force responsibly. What seemed to be an overly cynical view in the mid-1990s now seems downright suicidal. If the United States is too untrustworthy to use force, then there is no evil on the planet it ever is entitled to repel -- even if the evil is perpetrated on our own homeland. Would it take 100,000 deaths from a crude nuclear device? I ask my fellow progressives whether there is any point where we are justified in fighting back. If you really believe in "no more innocent victims," then every effort must be made to disrupt, weaken and destroy terrorist networks. If you really believe in "justice, not vengeance," every effort must be taken to find, try and arrest every terrorist on the planet -- including the judicious use of force. The movement insists we should treat the September 11 attacks as the crime of the century, not an act of war. But a justice framework has no bearing on our right to respond with force. Imagine Mohammed Atta, one of the World Trade Center suicide-pilots, managing to parachute out of plane just prior to impact and absconding to a safe house in Brooklyn. Police discover his whereabouts, surround the building and present a warrant for his arrest. The door opens a crack and a gun barrel emerges, along with a warning that if the police storm the building, they will be killed. Can there be any doubt that in the criminal context that the police would be justified in using force to enforce their warrant and arrest Atta? This is a fair analogy to what has happened internationally. President Bush presented the Taliban with as close to a warrant as is possible in the current international context -- not only enough proof to justify an indictment of bin Laden and his associates but also an actual indictment from a New York court. And the Taliban essentially told the United States to get lost. Force is not the antithesis of justice -- the failure to prosecute murderers is. And when perpetrators of violence resist arrest, lawful force is an essential tool for justice. The peace movement further claims that even if force is warranted, "indiscriminate bombing" isn't. Is it more moral to mount a siege, village by village, with ground forces than to bomb fighter jets, runways and command centers? Is it preferable to smoke out the Taliban with a cruel, indiscriminate embargo like we've imposed on Iraq for the past decade? Is it better to act slowly and erratically, as we did in the former Yugoslavia, while tens of thousands die from starvation, exposure and disease? It's often said that generals make the mistake of fighting the last war, but this time it's peace activists. This is not Vietnam, where the United States is defending a petty dictator against a popular resistance movement 10, 000 miles from home. This is an effort to thwart thousands of well trained and financed warriors who have sworn to kill every American man, woman and child. A peace movement worthy of its name still would advocate the right combination of minimal force and other policies to achieve justice. It would point out that the need to use modest force does not automatically justify increases in an already colossus military budget or encroachments on civil liberties. And it would try to convince Americans that it's worth surrendering a little sovereignty to strengthen the international institutions needed to control flows of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons materials. But a peace movement that cannot rise above platitudes like "no more war" or "no more bombing" will never have the credibility to influence anybody on anything. Shuman, author of "Going Local: Creating Self-Reliant Communities in a Global Age (Routledge, 2000), directed the Institute for Policy Studies from 1992 to 1998.
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